Dead State: a comparison *spoilers alert*

ChienAboyeur

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Being two months without playing a video game could not explain how bad I found the demo of this game.
It had another explanation that was obvious: I have a reference point to compare Dead State with.

For now one year and half, with a group composed with 3-4 core players plus 4-5 occasional players, I have been participating to a tabletop game campaign whose gameplay and settings are very close to Dead State.

That explains why I found Dead State to be so weak.

So, in order to better understand what was going on, I decided to play thoroughly the Dead State demo, giving it three full walkthroughs(3 by seven ingame days). Players known as the investors will tell that I've already recouped more than the basic investment of $25 demo price (less than one dollar per ingame days but this is another story.

Dead State is on purpose an old school type of game so it gives an opportunity to compare two different types of game: video games and tabletop games.

Each of them has their strong point. For example, it is useless to expect from a video game the depth and wealth in story you can get in a tabletop game campaign as the story is written as the human players play the game.

Samewise, you cant expect the wealth of items and tracking of items in a tabletop game as you can get in a video game.

It is about comparing what can be compared.

Both are supposed to be survival games. That games in which the decision making process is dominated by the will to survive. Decisions are taken in order to achieve the goal of surviving.
Survival comes with survival pressure, a pressure that forces to choose between surviving and dying. In a zombie game, zombies are instrumental in installing that pressure.


Tabletop game:
Highly satisfying on this regard. No run is a given, PCs'lifes are put on the line. Zombies operate efficiently and the player learn they must be feared. Noise attracts them. Encounters with NPC gangs can be extremelly lethal.
Fighting is an option that is taken to ensure the primary goal: survival.
It gives all of a variety in completion of runs: runs can be a total failure, semi failures, semi-successes, total successes. Often, you must abort a run in order to survive.
Loot is placed randomly in places and there can be no loot at all. This means that more than often, you might complete a run while achieving nothing.
Fog of war is efficient, zombies or gang randomly appear, meaning you dont know what to expect.

Dead State:
Survival pressure is inexistent in this game. The worst marker possible in a survival game: instead of cautiously balancing the risks of going head to head with an opponent, you start antagonizing everything that moves. Cleanest sign of failure.
Zombies are in fixed locations, they are no threat. Avoiding zombies is actually more dangerous than antagonizing them.
In one sector, there is a church. Zombies are attracted to noise so you can lure them at the front door while some others sneak in to loot the place. Did that on my second walkthrough, gave up on that on the third walkthrough because it is easier to kill the zombies.
My three walkthroughs ended the same: lost nobody. In the third, I probably killed everything that could be killed.
Game is extremelly linear, there is no failure, only successes.
Combat comes with no tension. Never you feel threatened.
 
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It sounds like the crux of your complaint is that combat isn't challenging enough... I wonder, have they said whether or not there will there be multiple difficulty settings? If not, perhaps they intend to tweak the difficulty in the full release. Surely you're not the only one complaining about the lack of challenge; if they make the zombies stronger, then you have incentive to avoid them... Sounds like a relatively easy fix...

Having them be in fixed locations, I could see as more of a problem though perhaps they can make them wander a bit.
 
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It is not complaints. It is a comparison between two ways of gaming: video gaming and tabletop gaming.

Both games share very similar gameplay. One does things right, the other doesnt.

It is not so much about combat difficulty but the threat zombies generate, which determines the survival pressure put on the player.
In a survival game, antagonizing a threat comes as a result of a careful pattern of thought, balancing the pros and cons. There is no farming (killing mobs to grow even more powerful) in a survival game.

A video game like Project Zomboid has the zombi threat right. You'll feel pressured when meeting zombies and you think twice (or thrice) before antagonizing them.
 
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Then your comparison, is ridiculous. You comparing a completed and possible published PnP game to a Indie Beta (possibly Alpha, I haven't bothered to check) video game.

Do you also compare cars on the sales lot, to a car shell in the manufacturing assembly building?

That's the nice reply, in truth you crossed the bullshit line, when you pretended that Dead State AI is comparable to anything. Basically your post is just a hack job.

Congratulations.
 
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NPCs encounter:

In a post apocalyptic game, encounters with other survivors are usually tense moments. Stumbling across other human beings ignite memories of the past and force to determine the best course of actions, cooperation, avoidance, confrontation.

In this regard, as the tabletop campaign involves human players, no one can expect from a video game the wealth and flexibility of interactions you can achieve in this campaign, alliances are made and undone, betrayal is rampant, hostages are kept as a way to bargain, abduction of a proficient member of the band is sometimes the objective of a run etc

But it happens that the ruleset of the tabletop game includes management of NPCs through a simple AI machine state.

Tabletop game:

The result of the encounter with NPCs changes. NPCs can antagonize you, they might trade with you, they might join forces through your run, sharing loot in the end, they might want to join your band of survivors, they can avoid you, wishing no interaction with you, focusing on their own runs etc…
NPCs are of different classes, which influences their behaviour. Some are proner to antagonize when they outnumber your band, others dont.
They also have memories of past encounters, meaning that befriending a NPC will lead to friendly behaviour in the future etc…

As a player, the variety of behaviours by NPCs increases the survival pressure. Never knowing beforehand the result of an encounter with NPCs introduces a pattern of thought, balancing the benefits of getting an ally with the drawbacks of meeting an aggressive band.

Sometimes, killing other humans is also a way to take what they have and ensure the survival of your band.

The unknown and the way to manage it enrichs the survival experience.

Dead State:
Despite showing NPCs in different moods (like angry, nervous etc), the result of an encounter is always the same: assault. NPCs are one class only (looters)
No diversity here. Everything is known beforehand.
The game is set in Texas though, maybe it explains why survivors always try to settle anything using their weapons.

Yet, compared to the tabletop game, video games should excell in machine state AI as the computer tool provides excellence to manage that.
It is not the case though. And if the explanation lies with representing the habits of Texas, the solution shall be to move the video game somewhere else.
 
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Do you not understand the difference between completed and Alpha/Beta, not to mention Press Release descriptions.

All you had to do to actually be helpful, was post your concerns in the Dead State forums. Whoever is working on the AI whether it's Brian, Oscar or who ever (I really don't know atm) would have told you the same thing, which should be obvious to anyone.

The AI is not complete.

Get it.

My guess is the Dead State team, wants everyone to buy and like their game. Even if the Demo (which I haven't played) is to easy out of the start, it's smart.

Even a n00b should be able to play the game and have fun. Just as much as a Hardcore, balls to the wall kinda guy (like yourself), should be able to have fun.

Thankfully most video game developers have heard of this new technology called, difficulty settings.
 
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Do you not understand the difference between completed and Alpha/Beta, not to mention Press Release descriptions.
I suppose it is no longer in order as a gold version is released.
So what point was not understood previously?

The AI is not complete.

Get it.
Got it.

My guess is the Dead State team, wants everyone to buy and like their game. Even if the Demo (which I haven't played) is to easy out of the start, it's smart.

Even a n00b should be able to play the game and have fun. Just as much as a Hardcore, balls to the wall kinda guy (like yourself), should be able to have fun.

Thankfully most video game developers have heard of this new technology called, difficulty settings.

Or not.
 
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How is it weird?

It is topical: the final version of the game has been released and comments imply that the remarks made from some early versions would not last.

They did last.

One remark that went unreported in this thread, that I wanted to add and was made in another thread: roaming zombies.
 
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