Skyrim Level Scaling

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

rossrjensen

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Clearly Skyrim sports some form of level scaling. After playing through some of the game and then watching my brother perform some of the same quests (although in completely different places - must be the radiant AI actually working) at a lower level and doing just fine, that is abundantly clear. But so far I haven't really seen any signs of loot scaling. Anyone else have some input on just how extensive the level scaling is?

So far, it hasn't spoiled the experience for me, but it took quite a while before it did in Oblivion too. Skyrim's seems much more toned down. If you have some impressions of where you have seen level scaling and just how much of it there is (or if you have found some great hand-placed loot!), please post it here.
 
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I just found my first ebony gauntlets. Not sure if they were handplaced or not, but I doubt it. It's been slowly upgrading throughout the game, but not to the extent that Oblivion was. I still find hide, leather and the occasional iron on most human enemies. While the chests or dungeons might offer one or two good pieces of loot. Not overpowered, but not that bad either. In the same dungeon I found the ebony gauntlets I found two magic weapons. They're not that powerful, but I don't have their enchantments yet so they're going to get destroyed as soon as I get to an enchanters table.

Let's put it this way, I'm level 21 and still have not found a complete set of elven armor. Which is fine by me. It makes finding them more worthwhile. I'll find lots and lots of hide, leather and iron though. Maybe some steel thrown in too.

I'm still struggling with money sometimes, but it's getting easier now that my alchemy skill is higher.
 
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The best loot I'm finding at level 12 is mages' robes. They weigh almost nothing and are worth a fair bit. Just raid a necromancer's lair and cha-ching. :p

I've not really noticed much level scaling yet, which is kind of how it should be. There's a bit more magic loot showing up, and now there are a few higher level bandits spawning in bandit lairs, but there's still a good mix of easy "Hey, look at me, I'm stronger!" and "holy crap, I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die! Iiiiieeeeee!" moments. Some places have definitely been meant for a higher level that I was when I visited them.

Of course, I'm still fairly low level, so that could all change.
 
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I encountered one of those dungeons and ran screaming out of the dungeon like a little girl. It was glorious!!! That NEVER happened once in Oblivion.
 
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I like the way they've dealt with scaling by adding higher level enemies that you are more likely to see at higher levels, for example most random dragons I see now are Blood Dragons, as I level I expect to see even nastier ones.

Potion making seems to be a good money maker, only issue I have is finding vendors with enough cash to buy them all!

Daniel.
 
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There definitely is scaling in some places but I haven't been able to figure out if it is just in main quest lines or also elsewhere. I am in the later level 20s and I run into dwarven, orcish, and elvish stuff regularly now and just found one ebony thing. These are all on drop from foes, usually the "bandit leader" or somesuch. Probably 75% of stuff is still hide, leather and iron though with most of the rest steel or silver.

There is some really good loot stashed in places. I one town I was poking around in a building and was shocked to see a glass sword hidden behind a counter. As I am playing a "good" character I let it be but boy was it tempting!
 
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Of course, I'm still fairly low level, so that could all change.

There were a bunch of quests that I ran into early on that I just could not handle (after trying and dying 3 or 4 times I gave up) and so ignored them. Last night I played a bit and went back to some of these "impossible" ones and had little trouble. I really like that.
 
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Random loot scaling is pretty ok - quality of some stuff goes up as one levels up, but lower level items are still present so it´s not like suddenly all minor magicka potions become major ones, etc.
If there´s any hand placed non-quest related loot somewhere, I´ve yet to find some - so far, unfortunately, delving into dungeons I´ve found on my own only netted random, level scaled finds, at least as far as I can tell. Difficulty of locks doesn´t seem to scale (fortunately) and in the context of this it sometimes leads to "inappropriate" results, like opening a master lock and getting 7 gold + petty soul gem. All non-random loot seemed to be quest specific so far.

Rewards from the "radiant" quests are scaled as well, which makes sense because otherwise doing these at higher levels would be worthless. However, other than pointing players to some places, these are still pretty much expandable and only clutter the experience in my opinion (and don´t work optimally - one of these I´ve received pointed me to a dungeon I´ve already been to and upon returning there it was respawned with same mobs, including the named one whose killing was the objective of the first quest I´ve done there).

When it comes to enemies, generally the system is very good for this type of a game. Trash mobs get some higher level enemies added into the mix as one levels up, but similarly as in the case of random loot, weaker ones are still present. This goes both for dungeon and wilderness areas.
There are also encounters which I think are always supposed to be at higher level than player, as in, an encounter nets a draugr overlord at level 12, but draugr deathlord at level 20, etc. Besides the named bosses and such which are set (but very likely scaled as well), there seem to be some static "no-name" encounters too (like the frost troll on a way to Hrothgar, or passive entities, giants and mammoths included).
Dragons, again, follow the similar principle as random loot.

Average level of enemies differs per area, so it´s possible to stumble upon a dungeon where even the weakest foe can mop the floor with a player of lower level.

While I think this in general is a pretty ideal set up, quite often those higher level mobs that get added later seem to be somewhat overkill in the amount of hitpoints they have and damage they can dish - basically, they don´t follow the same rules as players.
Bandits don´t suddenly start wear glass armor, but some of them can still kill my level 31 character in two hits, while I need a lot more to kill them, and they don´t have any special equipment either.
Since I´m playing a jack of all trades character I can´t be sure about that, but my impression is that this may become a problem for pure or "purer" spellcaster builds, because there´s no way to increase damage output of the spells and higher level spells are quite costly to cast (while increasing damage output of weapons is possible).
I´m playing on master difficulty so the above is no doubt exaggerated compared to normal setting, but in principle this is a likely flaw anyway as the mechanics seem to be putting spellcasters in a rather significantly disadvantageous position.
 
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Since I´m playing a jack of all trades character I can´t be sure about that, but my impression is that this may become a problem for pure or "purer" spellcaster builds, because there´s no way to increase damage output of the spells and higher level spells are quite costly to cast (while increasing damage output of weapons is possible).
I´m playing on master difficulty so the above is no doubt exaggerated compared to normal setting, but in principle this is a likely flaw anyway as the mechanics seem to be putting spellcasters in a rather significantly disadvantageous position.

Yeah, I've noticed that spellcasting doesn't really scale very well, especially with the lack of custom spells. You can slightly boost the damage with some perks, but that seems to be about it. Destruction seems to be more of a secondary attack skill in the long run.

I really hope that spellmaking is something that will either be unlocked in a DLC or patch later, but I'm sure it'll be addressed by the modding community once it gets going. That should help keep magic useful.

It is strange how an NPCs lowest level Destruction spell is so much more effective than mine is, though…
 
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I'm using Destruction as my primary. With Conjuration as my secondary. Works out great. My ice golem beats the living daylights out of them and I swing around and pepper them with firedart or fireball. The key to the mage is to have a good tank in the way just like any other RPG. You fight a high level creature on your own then you are dust.

Get the perks and get them fast. Espcially duel weilding destruction spells and stagger. Those helped me out more than a few times. Overpower your spell and then they fall flat on their face…..well sorta. They get back up again then shout them back down.

I think they kept the scaling toned down for wizards on purpose because if I scaled like you guys with the amount of potions and enchantments that I can make then nothing could stop me. That gets boring.
 
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Wow, thanks for the very detailed responses so far. A little bummed to hear about the magic. I am playing as a destruction-based mage also specializing in single handed weapons, so that sounds slightly disappointing. So, it sounds like all the special loot is acquired through quests and there is none to be found from exploration, is that what everyone has found thus far? That would be a little disappointing too, but I am determined not to let it ruin my enjoyment, it has been terrific so far.
 
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Special loot like magical? No, that's not the case. I found two magic weapons in my last dungeon and before that I find maybe one every other dungeon.

The enemies aren't "Monty Hall'd" Humans, even higher level human enemies, will more likely have fur, leather, iron and maybe steel on them. With no magic weapons.

You get better spells the higher your skill levels go. Right now my destruction skill level is 49 and just bought fireball. Before that there was only firebolt, fire rune and flame available for fire based spells. You'll need the perks for your main magic skill. You don't need them all, but you'll need the ones that lower the amount of magicka you use. That one is a must.

I'm not so sure that multi-classing would be impossible. There are some very good perks that increase damage, lower magic use and other things in the destruction skill. That increases the viablility of these spells immensely.

I really don't agree that much with how magic doesn't scale well. I'm not having that difficult a time with the game playing on expert. It's challenging, but not overpowering. My spells have scaled nicely, imo of course. It's a good balance right now.
 
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Oh, good to know. I am still only a lowly level 7 (only free time I have come by since its release was yesterday), but my Battlemage has seemed to be plenty capable so far. First thing I did was take off to the college. I am impressed with how lengthy the quests are. Each one seems to lead you to several more.
 
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So, it sounds like all the special loot is acquired through quests and there is none to be found from exploration, is that what everyone has found thus far? That would be a little disappointing too, but I am determined not to let it ruin my enjoyment, it has been terrific so far.
Actually, I tried to remember a bit harder and I think that in my 50 hours game there have been at least two instances of non-random, hand placed stuff I´ve found without having any quest tied to it. One was a set of weapons, the other a diadem gotten at a certain rather unique location, so I wasn´t completely correct up there, but the gist of what I was saying stays - chances that a dungeon you´ve discovered on your own will net you some unique item are slim.
That however doesn´t mean exploration isn´t rewarding - a lot of quests are started via exploration after all (I even got a quest or two from reading a book), there are those shout walls and, well, the gameworld itself.
 
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I really don't agree that much with how magic doesn't scale well. I'm not having that difficult a time with the game playing on expert. It's challenging, but not overpowering. My spells have scaled nicely, imo of course. It's a good balance right not.

It's good to hear that from someone who's actually playing at a higher level, because it does look a bit... limited on paper. I'm a few skill points off the next tier of Destruction spells, so maybe I'll feel the power again soon.
 
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I would actually go as far as to say it is very scaled. 95% of loot is random and all of it is level appropriate. You will not see ebony until late-game, you will not see glass. Enemies you fight for story reasons with very high level equipment cannot be looted, just like the Daedra in Oblivion. The animals and enemies aren't as bad, but even there you will notice dungeons go from low-level zombies to zombie masters to zombie gods and what-not.

Still, it is MUCH better than Oblivion for a few reasons. 1)It's not as obvious, you don't see a bandit every 5 seconds wearing full ebony plating. 2)The low-level stuff is still around, and still the majority. 3)You have a chance to see high-level monsters early, especially if you go where they are focused, and you also have a chance to get good equipment early. Somehow I got an ebony sword at like level 14 and I have been using it ever since, at level 27 now.
 
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I think the scaling works quite well. I'm level 30 now, most outdoor opponents seems unchanged, wolves are very weak while Giants are killable with a bit of preparation. The Dragons are an exception and continually gets stronger.

In Dungeons it seems enemies universally scale up, but they do it in an interesting way. In the start I mostly met bandits, now I encounter spell casters more and more frequently. Some of the melee opponents become very nasty cleaving me in twain with a single hit of a two-hander. The feeling I get is that enemies get more varied with time. There is a good mix of strong and weak enemies, but sometimes the difficulty level feels a little too random.

Normal drops slowly scale as well, but there is still lower level items.

I'm player a stealthy archer that scales quite well. Damage output is huge, but I struggle a bit with fights that have many opponents. Having the trait that daze opponents briefly works wonders.
 
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So, it sounds like all the special loot is acquired through quests and there is none to be found from exploration, is that what everyone has found thus far? That would be a little disappointing too, but I am determined not to let it ruin my enjoyment, it has been terrific so far.

Depends what you mean by "special loot". I found high level spell scrolls (Greater Ward and Firestorm, master level spells) last night in a chest at the end of a "dungeon" with a level 4 character.

I also found an haunted house, a skill book high in the mountains laying under a bunch of crates with nothing but snow around and lots of "random" quests/encounters by exploring.
 
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I'm currently level 32 or so on my 2nd character, so I can explain a bit about the scaling.

- Loot and enemies are level scaled, though it seems to involve mainly renaming of enemies. Also, regions and dungeons seem to scale as well. Typically at low levels you bump into "Bandit" while at higher levels you bump into "Bandit Something" or "Something Bandit" which has more hitpoints, more damage and better gear.
- There are certain hand placed items in the game, mainly involved in major quest lines such as guild quests.
- Low level enemies still exist at higher levels. Wolves are a good example.

An example of hand placed items (mage loot):
During the final stages of the Mage Guild, you get access to a robe and helmet that are simply incredible. I think I managed to get them at level 15 or so, and they blow every other item I've seen completely out of the water - even stuff from Daedric quests, though I haven't completed them all yet.
 
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