Witcher English translation - you guys miss all the fun.

The Witcher

Furia

Watcher
Joined
December 3, 2007
Messages
7
Ok so i've seen one dialogue in original and in translation. I presume it was the american censored version. And it hurts my ears to hear such neutral language from a dwarf. Here are the two versions:
Original: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SctrHjdoAzk
Translated: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HS1hLGyJvZ4

You might notice that the original is considerably (about 1/3 longer) than the English version. Not only is it voiced better (that you might notice even without understanding the dialogue itself), but also it has some climate-making stuff that either has been cut from or never even introduced into the English version. So here's my translation from Polish. Sorry it's not too good, but it still hints the real experience Polish gamers have compared to you guys.

I put it in spoiler tags, cause I've tried to stay as much true to the original as I could - that including the occasional vulgar language. So if you are easily offended by language - don't read it.

D: Dwarf speaks.
G: Geralt speaks.
[G]: Geralt speaks the choosen dialogue option.
Also i have separated the different dialogue paths which start from the root of the conversation, so the "What?" doesn't feel out of place.

D: Greetings.
G: Greetings.
D: Yes, I am a dwarf. No, I don't support the Scoia'tael in any form. And yes, i've payed the tax and all the bribes, many times - today in fact.
G: Calm down. I just want to talk.
D: I'll be calm in my grave. Judging optimistically that'll be in no more than a dozen days.
G: I'll try not to miss the funeral.
D: Come see the execution too! I once was dragged to see a hanging of a nonhuman. Loads of fun, i tell you!
G: They don't like nonhumans around here, eh?
D: Not here, nor anywhere in the northern kingdoms. An official in Vezima recently won a commendation for innovation, I heard. Invented gallows especially for dwarves.
G: What's so innovative about that?
D: Nothing! But think of all the saved resources! With the production rate going in hundreds, they can save a lot of wood to make other useful goods, like say.. toy swords for the children.
G: I want to ask you something.

D: What?
[G]: I want to talk about weapons.
D: I'm not a weaponry speciallist, though i can forge swords. Bring me three metal ores and I'll forge you an exellent steel sword.
[G]: I'll look around for ores.
D: One more thing. I really need gold. So for 35 orins I can sell you an exellent sword grease. It's not exactly legal, or widespread, but.. well...
[G]: I'm not interested.

D: What?
[G]: Why do locals persecute nonhumans?
D: Well why does a dick love a pussy? It's the natural order of all things! Humans have always been hostile towards dwarves and elves. I am not to decide who's fault was that in the first place.
G: I don't understand.
D: Then go figure it out by yourself. Or have a chat with that fucker Brog. I don't discuss those topics with strangers.
G: Allrigt.

D: What?
[G]: Tell me about the Scoia'tael.
D: Scoia'tael is an elven word - in your language: squirrels. They have squirrel tails dangling from their hats. They're fighters for the rights of nonhumans - in your language: terrorists and scoundrels.
[G]: Do you have contacts with the Squirrels?
D: Fuck off, you insinuator!
I don't know if you feel the difference, but I definately felt it very strongly. The only solution I've got for you all is: learn Polish! You probably have some time till the sequel comes out. ;)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
7
Nice Polish voice acting on Geralt. I feel a bit of a difference, but I think the basics come through. Something is always lost in translation, unfortunately. But I agree the Polish seems both more vehement and more expressive of scorn/anger from the dwarf.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,834
Yes it's been known for quite a while that Atari massacred the original English script (the American script isn't censored AFAIK) made by CDP's contractor, Writer's Cabal. Apparently, Polish is supposed to be a very long-winded language compared to English and CDP's Polish translations of RPG:s usually end up using 20% more words than the English original, yet the English translation was about as long as the Polish original. I think it was Sande Chen, one half of the Writer's Cabal duo, who said that.

The problem with the translation in the game isn't just atmospherics but how they're actually very disjointed at times and don't always flow naturally, like the characters were talking past each other.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
525
Location
Sweden
Hi,
I looked in depth into the file dialogue00.bif these days and I registered to share my observations. (sorry for my terrible english)

First, the script wasn't censored, because the cuts are non related to strong langage at all. The OP's example with the dwarf seems merely to be a coincidence. Unfortunatly, these cuts aren't limited to swearing or some secondary NPCs, they can affect the main dialogues too.

It's look like someone really need to cut 20% by any mean. So they cut some atmospheric sentence, remove some lore information and compact. What really annoy me, it's that sometimes the NPCs express their feeling in the dialogue but after the cuts they just deliver the information and that's it.
However it's not a complete butcher, there is also a lot of sentence without cut. Ingame, you don't really notice they, because the vital informations are still in, but there is this disjointing feeling sometimes.

Good news for the english speacker : The original script is in the files ! So, we can certainly restore it with the toolset.
But bad news for the french, german, spanish and other langages : There is only one script for each and its come directly from the english short script. (100% positive for french and german and very likely for spanish and italian), no restoration possible.


Here is a lot of example, so you can see what the cuts look like. So, basically there is 3 distinct scripts in the file dialogue00.bif:
A: original long script
B: improved script, no cut (I can hardly measure; but I believe that the syntax and the vocabulary is a bit better)
C: short script

A. Don't make me laugh, Geralt. Simplicity suits you like a fist fits a nose, and sentimentality suits you even less. You can't deny that. You're too smart. Apart from that, who do you want to defend? Folest? A monarch who has more sins on his conscience than Phed has long words in his vocabulary?
B. Don't make me laugh, Geralt. Simplicity suits you like a fist in a nose and sentimentality suits you even less. You can't deny that. You're too smart. Besides, who do you want to defend? Foltest? A monarch with more sins on his conscience than Professor has long words in his vocabulary
C. Who are you fighting for? Foltest? A monarch with more sins on his conscience than Professor has words in his vocabulary?

A. You're right. Mine was a rhetorical question. So if not Foltest, then who? The Lodge of Sorceresses? You know nothing about it. You may be sleeping with Merigold, but you have no idea what those bitches are capable of. I can tell you they had quite a bit of influence on the postwar treaties. The resettlements, deportations, the unresolved matter of the Scoia'tael and others...
C. If not Foltest, then who? The Lodge of the Sorceresses? You know not what those bitches do to influence postwar treaties. The resettlements, deportations, the unresolved matter of the Scoia'tael, and others...

A. Then he disappeared, just like that. He wandered around that damnable tower. Perhaps he encountered a very powerful monster?
C. Then he disappeared. Perhaps he encountered a powerful monster?

A. Shouldn't answer a question with a question. Saw somebody like you recently. I asked the reverend who it was. Never learned his name, but I know he tried to get in the city.
B. Should never answer a question with another. Saw one like you recently and asked the reverend who it was. Never learned his name, but I know he wished to enter the city.
C. Saw one like you recently and asked the reverend. Never learned his name, but he wished to enter the city.

A. Apart from that, during the war he cared only for his crown, allowing Nilfgaard to plunder and torch the neighboring kingdoms he had made alliances with. Simple people are dying of hunger there to this day. Is he worth fighting for?
B. Furthermore, during the war, he cared only for his crown, allowing Nilfgaard to plunder and torch neighboring allied kingdoms. Simple people are dying of hunger there to this day. Is he worth fighting for?
C. Furthermore, during the war, he allowed Nilfgaard to plunder and torch neighboring allied kingdoms.

A. I see you don't learn from your mistakes. But that's not determination, that's just stupidity. Want me to surprise you? Fine. Remember the magic book from the Tower in the swamp? Observe some useful spells you gave me...
C. Remember the magic book from the Tower in the swamp? Observe some spells...

A. You, simple? Don't make me laugh, Geralt. But that's meaningless. Nothing will change, except for the fact that there will be one witcher less.
C. Nothing will change, except there'll be one witcher less.

A. The mage's tower? What good is human magic? Fireworks and jugglers' tricks, that's all. I doubt the tower's worth your while. Ask Yaevin, he was interested in that building.
B. The mage's tower? What good is human magic? Fireworks and jugglers' tricks, nothing more. The tower's hardly worth your while. However, ask Yaevinn. He showed interest in that building.
C. What good is human magic? Tricks, nothing more. However, Yaevinn showed interest in that building.

A. Angular houses, dirty streets. The place lacks the beauty that inevitably surrounds my people.
B. Stocky houses, dirty streets. The place lacks the beauty that inevitably surrounds my people.
C. This place lacks the beauty that normally surrounds my people.

A. It chiefly enables conversations over relatively short distances. With some knowledge of magic, one could draw quite a bit of information from it. If the Salamanders were using it to communicate with headquarters, they'll have no problem localizing it...
B. It allows conversations over relatively short distances. The Salamanders may've used it to communicate with headquarters. With some knowledge of magic, one could draw quite a bit of information from it
C. It allows conversations over short distances. With some knowledge of magic, one could draw quite a bit of information from it.

A. Cherry vodka for Dandelion, rose wine for me... and something for you.
C. Cherry vodka, rose wine... and something for you.

A. You see this mess all around? Bandits, monsters, and city hall barely does anything. No one knows where decisions are made or who is responsible.
B. Look around: Bandits, monsters, and.... No one knows who's responsible or where to make decisions. City hall is silent.
C. Look around: Bandits, monsters, and... City hall is silent.

A. True, but the situation now is nothing like Oxenfurt. Ah, college days!
C. This is nothing like Oxenfurt.

A. Tell me, is there a chance I'll recover? Tell me!
B. Tell me, have I the chance to recover? Speak true!
C. Have I a chance to recover?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
4
This is great news. Now, just have to wait a few more days for the patch and toolset to be released :D
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
It's great to know that all that dialogue is in there. Some of the cuts really do make a serious difference to the whole "feel" of things. Thanks for posting, arzar.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,834
The problem with the translation in the game isn't just atmospherics but how they're actually very disjointed at times and don't always flow naturally, like the characters were talking past each other.
That is always a problem with translations, whether in movies or games ... I guess the only consolation is the thought of how good the English game is regardless :)
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
14,951
When translating the unit descriptions for the unofficial patch 1.4 of Age Of Wonders: Shadow Magic, I had to stick to a certain limit of characters.

It felt kind of cruel to me to have to cut almost all of my imho fine translations to meet this character limit.

Maybe this was the case in this game as well ?

Contracts with translators of books are usually bound to the number of characters or words, I heard ... - maybe Atari just made a guess over the needed words or characters and made the translators stick with this ?

It would explain some things.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,952
Location
Old Europe
slight chapter 1 and 2 spoilers

Good god, this explains a lot! I was wondering how Geralt came to the nonsensical conclusion about the origins of the Beast after he'd spoken to that kid. The way the little boy rambled that nonsense I don't see how anyone could have made sense of it. This explains a lot!

Oh, btw, after I talked to Siegfried about naming his unit, a line of text was added to his character description, saying that he realized that the morality of his actions wasn't so simple. He never said anything like this in the game!!! Does anyone know if this is an error on the part of the developers or just another case of missing translated text? Man, I really want to love this game, but it's mind-boggling quirks like this that make it really hard. :I
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
18
I'll have to try this for the next playthrough. What I don't understand is the purpose behind limiting the dialogue in the first place if they left it in the game??? How does that save Atari any money if it's all already been done? I mean, how much more could it cost to have the voice actors say a few more lines of text?
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,834
Obviously a lot - certainly much more than the cost to leave a few more megabytes of text on.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
585
Location
Serbia
I didn't realize voice acting was such a well paid profession. ;) Maybe that explains all the terrible voicing we get--it's everybody's wives, sisters and brother-in-laws sitting around a mike reading script.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,834
Thanks Ausir, very helpful info. :)

Does anyone know/remember what the original setting was for the Witcher.ini?
[Djinni]
Language=

Currently I have mine set to, FinalEnglish, since I keep trying the different ideas people keep posting. ;)
I am worried that might effect this new idea and I can't find an original I backed up or could someone whom hasn't tried to change there settings look at the Witcher.ini in your The Witcher/System folder?
I guess we will need to check to make sure these changes aren't changed in the new upcoming 1.2 patch.

Thanks. :)
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,772
The Djinni setting was EnglishShort. By the way, Djinni is the name of the toolset, so I think this setting does not affect the game itself, but only the upcoming toolset.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
200
Well if the german, french, spanish, italian, russian, czech and hungarian translation are based on the short english script, each english word you cut save a lot of money (translation+voice recording!)

Besides, I continued my investigation into the various files (wordpad FTW!), and I found this in 2da00.bif :


Code:
      id   name                      codepage    FallBack          		FallBackInfo	
0    0    Debug                    1252    	****              		1           	
1    1    English                  1252    	Debug           	  	1           	
2    2    FinalEnglish      	     1252    	English          	 	0           	
3    3    FinalEnglish_Short  1252    	Debug           		1       	 	
4    5    Polish            	     1250  	Debug           	  	1           	   
5    10  German            	     1252    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
6    11  French            	     1252    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
7    12  Spanish           	     1252    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           		
8    13  Italian           	     1252    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           		
9    14  Russian           	     1251    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           		
10  15  Czech             	     1251    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           		 
11  16  Hungarian         	     1251   	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
12  17  Reserved0              ****    	****              		****        	
13  18  Reserved1              ****    	****              		****        	
14  19  Reserved2              ****    	****              		****        	
15  20  Korean            	     ****    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
16  21  ChineseTrad           ****    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
17  22  ChineseSimp          ****    	FinalEnglish_Short	1           	
18  23  Reserved3              ****    	****              		****        	
19  24  Reserved4              ****    	****            	  	****        	
20  25  Reserved5              ****    	****             	 	****        	
21  26  Reserved6              ****    	****              		****        	
22  27  Reserved7              ****    	****              		****        	
23  28  Reserved8              ****    	****   			****

Each langage seems to have an id.
I installed my witcher game in french and I have the files dialog_11.tlk, lang_11.key and voices_11_00.bif . I bet that english version have dialog_3.tlk, lang_3.key and voices_3_00.bif files.

If you look in dialogues00.bif (with wordpad again), you will see that it contains all dialogues in each langage. Each line follow the order debug(polish), english, finalEnglish, finalEnglish_short, polish(another?), german, french, spanish etc.

So, what I labell script A, B, C in my previous post, may be : A = english, B = finalEnglish, C = finalEnglish_short.

Edit :
Someone else found the same thing today too !!
http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=6977.0
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
4
Debug must then be the first version for beta-testing. To see if dialogues made sense etc. Then came English, derriving from Debug, which is the english beta-testing version. Then from English they've made FinalEnglish.
Understanding this list further one must notice that FinalEnglish_short derrives from Debug, which make NO SENSE AT ALL! It looks like there were two translations made for english itself! WHAT THE HELL????

The missing id #4 would probably be FinalEnglish_short1, which is the ancestor of all other language translations. But what the hell is with having two translations? Did CDP do an independant translation from the one done by Atari? HUH? That makes even less sense. Well that still doesn't explain the missing #6-9...

Now the link posted states to change the ID of your language files from 3 to 1, which also makes little sense, assuming the author of that solution also bumped into this list. Why? English (id 1) is the version which was NOT altered after beta testing - instead FinalEnglish was created. That given it's probably better to switch the language id to 2 instead of 1.

The codepage column is obvious for anyone who's not an english speaker. Why? The character encoding for the Polish language is Windows1250. That makes Windows1252 the encoding for western Europe and Windows1251 the encoding for non-polish slavic languages (or eastern Europe). That too makes little sense. I mean is Russian not written in Cyrylic in the Russian translation? WHAT THE HELL???

The only reason for the game having all language versions in each copy is... NONE! Although it might be... maybe all copies all over the world are EXACTLY the same? That would mean that the language choosen for your gameplay would depend on your windows localization settings... But then........
This might be a fun thing to test for someone. Change your locale from US to UK and install and test the game. If UK users didn't get FinalEnglish_short, but the FinalEnglish - that would get You the uncut dialogues without messing with the files... that is: if my theory is correct...

EDIT: just a thought: it also might take your installshield language settings and configure depending on those...
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
7
Thanks Ausir. :)

Wow, great work arzar. :)

Furia, lol now I am confused. :p
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,772
Wow furia, great deduction.
Yes, the 0 debug(in polish) and 1 english must be some sort of beta version.

But for the font's problem, sorry it's my fault. I tried hard to make something not distorded by the forum presentation, finally gave up, made a dirty copy&paste and forgot the last column. :blush:
So there is a fonts column, with "fonts_rus" for the russian line and "fonts_zh "for the chinese.

And all copies over the world are not the same. My guess : The files with a 00 are the same for everybody (djinni00.bif, dialogues00.bif, cutscenes00.bif) because after all, text is cheap. You can have the whole script in each langage in the file dialogues00.bif( around 40 Mb). But the big files, like voices_X_00.bif are localized, and the X match your langage (3 for english, 5 for polish, 11 for french etc.)

I didn't notice that FinalEnglish_short derrives from Debug, but now , wow, it's puzzle me as well. Same conclusion : It make no sense AT ALL! :biggrin:

We realy need the toolset now to understand this mess. :S
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
4
Back
Top Bottom