Risen - Steam Sale

Yes, I think it's the strangely bad valuation of video games in general. That's why there are so many software pirates.
 
it seems there are not a whole lot of people here that understand the development process.
if they did they would never say a thought-out and bugfree product doesn't deserve to be paid 15$.
Some of the programmers would probably shoot you in the face if they could get away with it.
take this as a fact.
 
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Their answer is: it varies from location to location. I'd like to know it from Americans, specifically.

Not American but this is what Steam says on their support pages:
If you made an online order for a Valve product and you are an international customer there may be taxes or VAT charges that are mandated by your country added to your purchase.


To determine whether or not taxes will be assessed for your order, please enter your payment information and check the total order price before confirming your order. You will have the opportunity to cancel the transaction after seeing the tax.


Valve Corporation reports VAT declarations on a quarterly basis to HM Revenue & Customs in the UK, who then distributes to the various EU member countries.


Valve Corporation's eleven character "Special Scheme" identification number is:


EU 826 000 671


HM Revenue & Customs can be contacted by telephone in the UK at 0845 010 9000 (+44 208 929 0152 for international callers), or via their website at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/


So the answer is "it depends on where you live". When buying from Germany taxes (19% VAT) are always included. When buying from the US it is usually tax-free as far as I know unless you happen to live in Washington state where Valve have their headquarters. For some reason there is an obligation to pay/charge taxes when the seller and the purchaser are in the same federal state.
 
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Now, I am looking forward to Risen 2 and any other PB release. Based on the ambition I saw in Gothic 3, and the ability to refine and improve I saw in Risen, it is possible that Piranha have not made their masterpiece yet. And for a company which has already made four of the greatest CRPGs ever, that is again saying something. ;)

You've hit the nail on the head there, Kay; overreaching ambition and a rushed release got the better of Gothic 3. Porting the world of Gothic 3 (with some more 'texture') into the Risen engine while keeping Risen's combat and magic would easily give the best action-rpg I can think of.
I have high hopes for Risen 2.
 
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it seems there are not a whole lot of people here that understand the development process.
if they did they would never say a thought-out and bugfree product doesn't deserve to be paid 15$.
Some of the programmers would probably shoot you in the face if they could get away with it.
take this as a fact.

A product is worth the value it represents and nothing more.

What ignorant people would do because they made an effort making something not everyone wants to pay for, I leave to them.

I think Risen is a fantastic game - and that's why I would recommend paying for it.

But expecting everyone to agree is about as ignorant as I can imagine.
 
IMHO it's like this: if some people really think that the artists and programmers and designers and composers of Risen do not even deserve 15 dollars for a full RPG with nearly zero bugs, then those people should try to make a game and sell it themselves to see how it is like to get some revenue out of it.
That's all I'm saying.
 
Um, fuck you? (I really don't know what other answer you expect from your arrogance. You judge me without knowing me.)

Why would I expect anything?

I like to let people speak for themselves - and you've certainly demonstrated a bit about who you are in this thread.

No reason for me to assume anything when it's so plain.
 
IMHO it's like this: if some people really think that the artists and programmers and designers and composers of Risen do not even deserve 15 dollars for a full RPG with nearly zero bugs, then those people should try to make a game and sell it themselves to see how it is like to get some revenue out of it.
That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, you clearly think that because you consider Risen worth the money, everyone else must think so as well - and if they don't they're basically pirates or some such.

You somehow think developers deserve money, regardless of what their products do for people. So, even if someone doesn't consider Risen worth the money - because he didn't get much out of it - he should still tell other people it's worth it, right?

A very interesting attitude.

Anyway, I have no patience for what you seem to be - so I think I'll let you be that in peace ;)
 
Yeah, you clearly think that because you consider Risen worth the money, everyone else must think so as well - and if they don't they're basically pirates or some such.

Hu? I never said any of that.
Please try to read, and understand what you read.

You somehow think developers deserve money, regardless of what their products do for people. So, even if someone doesn't consider Risen worth the money - because he didn't get much out of it - he should still tell other people it's worth it, right?

No. I didn't say that, either. The first part is right - developers deserve money, as they invested time and - hold on - set a price for their product. That's their right. But I didn't say that everyone should happily pay them just because.

But there is this fine difference between saying something isn't worth any money because the developers deliberately created crud, and saying something isn't worth *my* money because the developers created a game that wasn't fun *for me*.
Honestly, I wonder why you don't understand this?!

A very interesting attitude.

Anyway, I have no patience for what you seem to be - so I think I'll let you be that in peace ;)

Cool! At least something. Could you do that please all the time? :)
 
it seems there are not a whole lot of people here that understand the development process.
if they did they would never say a thought-out and bugfree product doesn't deserve to be paid 15$.
Some of the programmers would probably shoot you in the face if they could get away with it.
take this as a fact.

First of all, the programmers will probably get paid anyway, because they wouldn't work otherwise. No sane human works 2-3 years for free and hopes for a big bag of money afterwards. The company may go broke if a game doesn't sell, but then the programmers have already been paid. If you don't get paid, get another job. If you are a freelance coder, than you should better hope that your game is good enough. If I'm a freelance hot dog seller, but my hot dogs taste like crap, then nobody will buy them (twice), no matter how hard I worked collecting the crap from the streets.

So we're talking about the company here. And do you REALLY want to imply that every company deserves to earn big bucks just for HAVING a product, no matter how bad, unfinished, boring or ugly it is? And what does "deserve" mean anyway? That everyone should be forced by the government to buy every "thought-out and bugfree" game? You know that it is nonsense and even hk knows that. The company doesn't deserve ANYTHING. If the game is good (for enough people), they will earn money, but not because they somehow "deserve" it, but just because the game is good.

Somehow you don't seem to understand that other people may like different games than you. And somehow you seem to think that this is "unfair" for the programmers: YOU like the game, so of course EVERYONE else also have to like the game. That's nonsense. If I don't like a game, it's worth (and, to make hk smile: "for me") is exactly zero.

And why you want to imply that "some" game coders are crazy psychopaths is beyond my ability to understand, sorry. As I already said: I'm a software developer myself and if a customer says: "Sorry, but your program isn't good enough for us to spend X bucks on." then I don't start going on a killing spree. Instead, I start asking myself, how I can prevent this from happening again (and if it happens again, I'll start looking for a different job).

But there is this fine difference between saying something isn't worth any money because the developers deliberately created crud, and saying something isn't worth *my* money because the developers created a game that wasn't fun *for me*.

As I already mentioned, this whole communication thingy is a little bit complex, I agree, so here's a little tip for you: The default for a posting is to contain the opinion of it's poster. If someone writes "This game is bad" then that doesn't mean, that god has spoken to him and deemed the game unworthy, but that the poster thinks that the game is bad. Of course, one could start every sentence with IMO, but as most people understand, that a posting probably only contains an opinion anyway, most people don't need that. If I go shopping with my gf (*urg*) I don't start every sentence with "I think": Instead I just say "That dress is ugly." Of course she understands, that I didn't read the akashic records, where it is stated for all eternity, that dress xyz is ugly. I just voiced my opinion. But as I am a very helpfull guy, here are some "imo"s that you can store in your brain and insert them mentally whenever you read a posting:

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO
 
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As I already mentioned, this whole communication thingy is a little bit complex, I agree, so here's a little tip for you: The default for a posting is to contain the opinion of it's poster.

And opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I know, I know.
Thanks for all the IYOs!
 
First of all, the programmers will probably get paid anyway, because they wouldn't work otherwise. No sane human works 2-3 years for free and hopes for a big bag of money afterwards. The company may go broke if a game doesn't sell, but then the programmers have already been paid. If you don't get paid, get another job. If you are a freelance coder, than you should better hope that your game is good enough. If I'm a freelance hot dog seller, but my hot dogs taste like crap, then nobody will buy them (twice), no matter how hard I worked collecting the crap from the streets.

The problem are buyers of hot dogs from freelance hot dog sellers, who don't even want to pay for the hot dogs !

And that regardless of the quality !
 
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Nov 5, 2006
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Old Europe
A product is worth the value it represents and nothing more.

What ignorant people would do because they made an effort making something not everyone wants to pay for, I leave to them.

I think Risen is a fantastic game - and that's why I would recommend paying for it.

But expecting everyone to agree is about as ignorant as I can imagine.
I pretty much agree with almost anything you post here to an extent where I don't feel I have to write something myself. ;)
And you're right on this one to an extent.

But.

You can look at games as art or products of technical skill and knowledge.
Of course, as art, they might be worthless to you or me and that's fine. But anyone can create art, it's totally subjective and who are we to say what's art to begin with.
Not anyone can create games. Objectively, it takes huge skill, persistence and time to produce something as Risen. And if the final product meets technical standards of quality (bugfree and optimized) you cannot just dismiss its value.
It's a product of technical knowledge and as such it holds value regardless of what your feelings of it might be.
You can say "Mercedes cars suck" but to say they're worthless cause you think they suck is stupid.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
158
First of all, the programmers will probably get paid anyway, because they wouldn't work otherwise. No sane human works 2-3 years for free and hopes for a big bag of money afterwards. The company may go broke if a game doesn't sell, but then the programmers have already been paid. If you don't get paid, get another job. If you are a freelance coder, than you should better hope that your game is good enough. If I'm a freelance hot dog seller, but my hot dogs taste like crap, then nobody will buy them (twice), no matter how hard I worked collecting the crap from the streets.

So we're talking about the company here. And do you REALLY want to imply that every company deserves to earn big bucks just for HAVING a product, no matter how bad, unfinished, boring or ugly it is? And what does "deserve" mean anyway? That everyone should be forced by the government to buy every "thought-out and bugfree" game? You know that it is nonsense and even hk knows that. The company doesn't deserve ANYTHING. If the game is good (for enough people), they will earn money, but not because they somehow "deserve" it, but just because the game is good.

Somehow you don't seem to understand that other people may like different games than you. And somehow you seem to think that this is "unfair" for the programmers: YOU like the game, so of course EVERYONE else also have to like the game. That's nonsense. If I don't like a game, it's worth (and, to make hk smile: "for me") is exactly zero.

And why you want to imply that "some" game coders are crazy psychopaths is beyond my ability to understand, sorry. As I already said: I'm a software developer myself and if a customer says: "Sorry, but your program isn't good enough for us to spend X bucks on." then I don't start going on a killing spree. Instead, I start asking myself, how I can prevent this from happening again (and if it happens again, I'll start looking for a different job).
You're trying too hard. Refer to my previous post.
 
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Sep 3, 2010
Messages
158
Anw, here's something for you to ponder on.
If somebody was offering you a brand new copy of Risen, would you take it?
 
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