Obama Jobs Plan - "Screw Future Generations"

So Social Security is unsustainable because other programs takes money from it? If this will bust your budget, isn't the problem then the programs taking the money from Social Security?
If you refer to the article I quoted a couple posts back, SS is currently taking in $0.75 in revenue for every $1 that gets paid out. The predations of congress have just made the lost cause a little more epic.
So it can't raise revenue nor reduce costs? Sounds like a bit of a fork, to use chess terms.
If that chess term means the ponzi scheme is guaranteed to fall apart at some point (exact point still to be determined) in the future because you can't get there from here, then you've just about got the idea. Although it would be political suicide, they could raise FICA taxes on current workers to cover the expenses of current retirees. Two problems with that solution--if you take a look at the original post from Mr. Ellis, you'll notice that the biggest problem is the shrinking base. The number of workers paying into the system is already insufficient to support the people using the benefits and that crevasse just keeps getting wider. Second, back when FDR set the system up, people generally died within a few years of retiring simply because life expectancy wasn't as good. So, they pay in for a few decades and then draw out for a few years. That's sustainable. Now, people pay in for a few decades (at a total of 12.4%) and then draw out for a few decades as well (at somewhere around 33%). That's simply not sustainable in any way, shape, or form.
 
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Also, check out, "Fast Facts" in the link below which details what we could have bought with the money spent for the Iraq war. Interesting, to say the least. ;)

http://www.ourfuture.org/makingsense/factsheet/iraq-war-costs



dteowner, I hope you read this , too. :biggrin:
Lots of assumptions about my position on Iraq. Would have been far cheaper to turn the country into an oversized parking lot and rented it to Wal-Mart, but what can ya do... To make no mention of Barack's flat out campaign lie that he'd pull the troops out within 12 months which added to the cost, but why confuse the issue with facts when we can blame Bush?
 
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You should have stuck with Michael Moore. Let's take a look at paragraph 9.
That doesn't document in the slightest where the IOUs originated. It doesn't give an ounce of documentation for your claim that it's "standard GOP practice". No mention of when the IOUs were written and no mention of which party was in control of congress at the time. Other than those minor deficiencies, it's a great reference I guess.

"the government has borrowed trillions of dollars against Social Security surpluses just as the first of the nation's baby boomers are nearing retirement"

O really? So who do you think was in power, in control of Congress and the Presidency when the article was written in 2006?

That would be the GOP. You sure work hard to refute an pbvious truth. But I suppose Rush Limbaugh doesn't say this so it must be true.

Also, wouldn't the GOP's plan to privatize SS been brilliant? All the capital that would have been lost in the economic crash, and the food lines would be stretching from Mexico to Canada. Another example of GOP damage to Social Security that was thankfully prevented by wiser minds.
 
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Michael Ellis, if the Republicans succeed in their "starve the beast" agenda you are correct in assuming future generations will be screwed unless they happen to be the uber rich. And after 2008 stock market let's not hear any suggestions of privatizing S.S. and Medicare because that really will be a death panel for granny.
 
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dteowner
To make no mention of Barack's flat out campaign lie that he'd pull the troops out within 12 months

President Obama, certainly had a mandate to do that with his big win in 2008—Bush never had a mandate but that didn't stop him from using it by going into Iraq (with lies about WMD >:O ). Being a veteran, it makes me angry that so many Americans lost their lives there…..and then the war bill for our children and their children. :'(
 
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Already been posted. Really doesn't amount to much beyond a lot of unsubstantiated accusations. I'm sure the lefties loved having their preconceptions supposedly validated, though.

'Already been posted', then what are your thoughts about this quoted from that link?
Truth-out.org, Mike Lofgren:
http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all…ult/1314907779

"If you think Paul Ryan and his Ayn Rand-worshipping colleagues aren't after your Social Security and Medicare, I am here to disabuse you of your naiveté.[5] They will move heaven and earth to force through tax cuts that will so starve the government of revenue that they will be "forced" to make "hard choices" - and that doesn't mean repealing those very same tax cuts, it means cutting the benefits for which you worked. […] The GOP cult of Ayn Rand is both revealing and mystifying. On the one hand, Rand's tough guy, every-man-for-himself posturing is a natural fit because it puts a philosophical gloss on the latent sociopathy so prevalent among the hard right. On the other, Rand exclaimed at every opportunity that she was a militant atheist who felt nothing but contempt for Christianity. Apparently, the ignorance of most fundamentalist "values voters" means that GOP candidates who enthuse over Rand at the same time they thump their Bibles never have to explain this stark contradiction. And I imagine a Democratic officeholder would have a harder time explaining why he named his offspring "Marx" than a GOP incumbent would in rationalizing naming his kid "Rand."
 
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Well there must be some reason why Republicans are the only major party in the developed world which advocates abolishment of SS and rollback of health care services. There must be some reason why, by American standards, all of European Conservative parties can be considered "Democrats".
So what is it dte? Prevalent antisocial personality disorder or rational egoism?
 
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If you refer to the article I quoted a couple posts back, SS is currently taking in $0.75 in revenue for every $1 that gets paid out. The predations of congress have just made the lost cause a little more epic.

Well, it's prohibited from spending money it doesn't have, which should mean that it will eventually run out of money (unless something is done). Because it can't loan to make up for the loss in revenue, so the only reasonable explanation as to why it's still working is that it's got excess money stored away (and those will run out eventually).

If that chess term means the ponzi scheme is guaranteed to fall apart at some point (exact point still to be determined) in the future because you can't get there from here, then you've just about got the idea.

Calling it a ponzi scheme is inaccurate (for one, it's not attempted fraud) and hyperbolic. As for guaranteed to fall apart: it's built to be sustainable in the 30's, and it was. It's problem is that things has changed since the 30's. The model itself is sustainable, it just needs to be more dynamic so it doesn't all of a sudden find itself in a situation where it has to pay twice as much as it takes in.

As for what a fork is, it's when you're set up with having to choose between which really important pawn you want to lose. In this case you either have to increase the funding or reduce the payouts, and by law neither is possible. Which pretty much means it's game over (just a question of time before your opponent wins).

(And we're somewhat on the same page - Social Security is on the verge of collapse.)

To make no mention of Barack's flat out campaign lie that he'd pull the troops out within 12 months which added to the cost, but why confuse the issue with facts when we can blame Bush?

I actually wonder how many of Barack's failed promises comes down to him not trying rather than congress not playing ball. Guantanamo comes to mind (hard to close it if no one in congress will vote for closing it).

Übereil
 
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by the way the only thing that screws future generations is playing politics (or debating it) when the world should be looking for solutions in sustainablity across all boards rather than listening to parrots on shoulders squaking "greed is good"

I wholeheartedly agree.

I would even shorten what you wrote down to this :

by the way the only thing that screws future generations is playing politics


And many, many, many people think like this right now.

Not only here in Germany - it's almost EVERY european country I know of - ad especially Israel right now ! Not to mention the arabic countries which try to get id of their dictators.

The next revolution will be "the people against the politicians".
 
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Apparently, the ignorance of most fundamentalist "values voters" means that GOP candidates who enthuse over Rand at the same time they thump their Bibles never have to explain this stark contradiction.
Once again, you're making (incorrect) assumptions about my position. It's becoming a habit and making the conversation pretty pointless.
 
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Well there must be some reason why Republicans are the only major party in the developed world which advocates abolishment of SS and rollback of health care services.
Rolling out the false platitudes already? While there certainly are some righties that have those positions, it's not all of them by any stretch, nor even a significant minority. But, if it makes your blind hate taste better, by all means go right ahead.
There must be some reason why, by American standards, all of European Conservative parties can be considered "Democrats".
So what is it dte? Prevalent antisocial personality disorder or rational egoism?
Since we seem to be trying to impress folks with impressive words, allow me to play along. That there would be one of them false dichotomy logical thingies, perfesser. But thanks for playing.
 
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I actually wonder how many of Barack's failed promises comes down to him not trying rather than congress not playing ball. Guantanamo comes to mind (hard to close it if no one in congress will vote for closing it).
Some truth to that, but remember that democrats controlled both houses of congress for Obama's first 2 years. Either the excuse doesn't hold up in this case, or the campaign promises were such a complete load of crap that not even his own party could support them (which says something about the people that fell for them, me thinks).
 
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Lack of working school system.
Without question that's a major problem, although I would cite that as evidence for why a whole generation actually believes the world owes them something that they don't have to earn.
 
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Some truth to that, but remember that democrats controlled both houses of congress for Obama's first 2 years. Either the excuse doesn't hold up in this case, or the campaign promises were such a complete load of crap that not even his own party could support them (which says something about the people that fell for them, me thinks).

That's an misleading overstatement as you well know, DTE. Why are you being so dishonest about Senate Republican filibusters in the first 2 years that killed and borked a ton of legislation?

The righties I am sure are proud of their record setting number of obstructing fillibusters. Funny how you conveniently forget about it...
 
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Let me ask you a question, Thrasher. If the minority party can control policy as effectively as you're claiming, how did Dubya manage to do all the things that you blame him for without a filibuster from the democrats? Dubya's republican majority was quite a bit smaller than the democrat majority enjoyed by Barack, to boot. But that's completely different, right?
 
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What part of record number of filibusters by righties did you not get DTE? Are you so blind to your own parties malfeasances that you won't understand it when it's spelled out for you?

Unlike the Republicans, the Democrats were not hellbent on obstructing all legislation and determined to make Bush (and the country) fail. McConnell and the rest of the right-wing politicians would sacrifice anything (including country and economy ) to make Obama fail. They fillibuster every piece of legislation they don't want to lose in vote. Dems actually want to make government work, through compromise. While righties think government is bad and want to prove it's broken at every turn. Obstructing is purposely breaking government.
 
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Admittedly, Dubya didn't really need much help from the dems to fail… We'll be saddled with a couple decades of eating turd sandwiches for Dubya just like y'all endured with Carter. ;)

Before you get too carried away about how dems just want to get along and deal in good faith and all that "compromise" hooey, I'd request you think back to the procedural scams, Pelosi/Reid/Obama quotes, and votes over Obamacare. Might be a little tarnish on those halos.

We've come to this point many times, though. Where's that line between "obstruction" and "standing on principles"? Obviously, for you anything that Michael Moore doesn't like is obstruction, while I'll excuse nearly anything that seeks to block Barack's abortion of a policy as good leadership. How do we define the line, which is the only way to get past this particular mudpie fight of ours?
 
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