Pillars of Eternity - Majority of Content Optional

Fargol said:

My only concern with that (and it's not a biggie) is that if I skip a lot of the optional material, will my party be able to take on greater challenges? Conversely, if I do all the side material, will my party be able to face-roll through the last battles?

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They said main path will be easier than side content. All the greatest challenges will be found in side content. I think main content will be easy no matter if you ignore side content or not. Probably too easy if you do everything.

NyxVampiria said:

I see it being compared to skyrim in the comments here. Although open world and freedom is a great thing there is also a reason why most players, including myself, never finished the main story of Skyrim. It's boring and poorly written cuz they focused too much on the open world. I still consider Skyrim a good game though, but I'm hoping that in this case there will be a good story to follow and a reason to complete it.

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No it is just one factor of the game, optional content, that was compared to Skyrim. Other than that, don't expect this game to be anything like Skyrim because it's not (well other than the ubiquitous Medieval-fantasy setting found in 95% of RPGs). Watch gameplay vids on Youtube and you'll see it's a modern take on Infinity Engine games vs Skyrim which is an open world Gamebryo/Creation Engine 1st/3rd person game.

NyxVampiria said:

Although open world and freedom is a great thing there is also a reason why most players, including myself, never finished the main story of Skyrim. It's boring and poorly written cuz they focused too much on the open world. I still consider Skyrim a good game though…

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I finished the main story but only because I used console to fix two bugs in it that kill the progress. It had nothing to do with boredom or openworld, it's simply bugged on two spots.
I don't consider Skyrim a good game.

If Eternity is going to be Skyrim, I'll regret backing that KS project.

jpnole said:

optional content

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I actually hate when the content is "optional". That makes rediculous "gee someone finished Fallout in 5 minutes, broke guiness record" titles on gaming sites possible.

The content in RPG should be IMO mandatory, but the moment you get to it shuld be chosen by a player, while strategy and choices how to deal with it is something that shoud be optional.
Of course I'm not talking about horse armor and such DLC stuff here.

joxer said:

The content in RPG should be IMO mandatory, but the moment you get to it shuld be chosen by a player, while strategy and choices how to deal with it is something that shoud be optional.

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I have to agree with this. Making all the content optional is not a good approach for me. I think the content should be mandatory in order to make your character strong enough to tackle the main quest. Having everything be optional can make things pointless, as well as make the main quest too easy if you've done all the optional stuff. Unless there is level-scaling, which of course opens another can of worms.

Still excited for the game, though. But I'm more excited for Serpent in the Staglands.

Fluent said:

I have to agree with this. Making all the content optional is not a good approach for me. I think the content should be mandatory in order to make your character strong enough to tackle the main quest. Having everything be optional can make things pointless, as well as make the main quest too easy if you've done all the optional stuff. Unless there is level-scaling, which of course opens another can of worms.

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Oh, I'll take over powered Characters over level scaling every day of the week, and optional content is the way to go in my book. The problem is that with level scaling it doesn't matter how much I explore and what awesome equipment I get my hands on, the final encounters in the main quest we'll be exactly the same chalenge level. Ridiculous and totally destroys my enjoyment.

I think alot of JRPG's actually does this right. If I decide to to all the side content and get my characters to stupid levels I'll just one-hit kill the final boss. And I love it…

Joxer: Making the optional content the larger part of the game doesn't mean you can speed run the game in 5 minutes, one quarter of a 50 hour game is still 12,5 hours. And although people have done speedruns of Fallout 2 in just minutes, that doesn't really make Fallout 2 a bad game now does it? It's absolutely brilliant. NO ONE could have done that speed run without a lot of insight into the game beforehand, as in having played it loads of hours or reading up. I plan to go into PoE pretty much unspoiled (I *might* read up a bit on character creation though…), so even if it would be possible to speedrun that's fine. I won't do it.

Less than a month to go… yay! Everytime I look at new screenshots…. brings back sooo much memories. I'm loving it it!

But seriously…. Josh will just never let go of his "balance", would he?

Lead designer Josh Sawyer said the role-playing game, which was funded through Kickstarter back in 2012, will strike a better balance of critical and side content than Infinity Engine games such as Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate.

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Since they are keep comparing PoE with IWD and BG, I'm going to say, if PoE turns out not on the same par as those 2 games, I'm going to be massively disappointed.

tomasp3n said:

Oh, I'll take over powered Characters over level scaling every day of the week, and optional content is the way to go in my book. The problem is that with level scaling it doesn't matter how much I explore and what awesome equipment I get my hands on, the final encounters in the main quest we'll be exactly the same chalenge level. Ridiculous and totally destroys my enjoyment.

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There is nothing ridiculous in it. Some ppl prefer challenge because they enjoy to be challenged. Challenge also gives purpose to game features and character progression. Why should player bother about his hero when he is overpowered?
Some ppl also like to explore because they enjoy exploration, not because they need to grind to please own ego. So I would choose bad level scalling over over-powered hero nonsense. But to each his own.

tomasp3n said:

If I decide to to all the side content and get my characters to stupid levels I'll just one-hit kill the final boss. And I love it…

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I can imagine that. Whole world is afraid of that final boss, all talk how hard is to defeat it, it seems like logical peak of the game. And then you come to him and kill him instantly. This is something I find truly ridiculous.

Does anyone remember if we can create the whole party or not in this game? In BG, I would play multiplayer so that I could have characters with good rolls for their class. If I remember correctly Imoen was the only good-aligned npc that had decent rolls for her role.

crpgnut said:

Does anyone remember if we can create the whole party or not in this game? In BG, I would play multiplayer so that I could have characters with good rolls for their class. If I remember correctly Imoen was the only good-aligned npc that had decent rolls for her role.

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Sorta, you can hire adventurers (you design them, they cost money and start one level under you or lower -higher level cost more money-) at some point into the game, but you start the game with only the main character.

You can have, unless my memory is faulty, 8 designed adventurers alive at the same time, those not in the party (max 6 people) stay at your Stronghold.

I don't like most content being optional either when it usually results in OP characters. Options are good and all that but I play these games for the content, not to skip it, so I'm going to do it and as such it might as well be required and involved.

Don't matter as much in this case since I've lost interesting in paying $45+ for a game that was 100% funded by the community. By the time I get it on sale for 75% off and a price point more in tune with what a 100% community funded game should cost, a lot could change.

I think Morrowind handled optional content well.

Basically, in Morrowind, you are expected and even directly told to go explore, level up, get stronger, etc., before tackling the main quest.

Without doing this, you won't be strong enough to complete the main quest.

So, you go and get stronger, level up, etc., and then start the main quest later. The tasks get even harder, so you may need to take a break again to level up more before finishing things out.

In this process, you've done a lot of the side content simply to get strong enough to handle the tough main quest, get the good items, etc.

So, if all of that content was simply optional, there wouldn't be quite the importance given to it to actually complete it. You could just blow through the game basically.

So, we'll see how it turns out. Just because I disagree a bit with the philosophy doesn't mean the game won't be good.

"Optional content" include many things though, some I know a few people don't really see as "optional". The companions are optional content, as is the backers dungeon and (most of) the Stronghold and its features for example.

To me the important thing is not if the content is optional or mandatory, but if (parts of) the content my be experienced in an arbitrary order, giving me freedom what to do next.

Voqar said:

IDon't matter as much in this case since I've lost interesting in paying $45+ for a game that was 100% funded by the community. By the time I get it on sale for 75% off and a price point more in tune with what a 100% community funded game should cost, a lot could change.

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*sigh* Again? Really?

Very bad idea to make a game that's supposedly challenging while having loads of optional content.

IOW, of course you can play with Path of the Damned and Trial of Iron enabled, because after completing enough optional content the game won't be hard anymore. Of course there's a level cap, but probably no cap on magic items or gold.

Voqar said:

Don't matter as much in this case since I've lost interesting in paying $45+ for a game that was 100% funded by the community. By the time I get it on sale for 75% off and a price point more in tune with what a 100% community funded game should cost, a lot could change.

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This is so weird to me. Should cost? What difference does it make that it was community funded?

Farflame said:

There is nothing ridiculous in it. Some ppl prefer challenge because they enjoy to be challenged. Challenge also gives purpose to game features and character progression. Why should player bother about his hero when he is overpowered?
Some ppl also like to explore because they enjoy exploration, not because they need to grind to please own ego. So I would choose bad level scalling over over-powered hero nonsense. But to each his own.

I can imagine that. Whole world is afraid of that final boss, all talk how hard is to defeat it, it seems like logical peak of the game. And then you come to him and kill him instantly. This is something I find truly ridiculous.

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Ouch. I agree with you on some points, but in general I suppose our opinion differs. I do enjoy being challenged, but I don't have a problem if that challenge can be found in doing things before you're "supposed to". That's even one of the major points to me, taking on stupid challenges and beating them. But when I do and it basically doesn't help my characters in any way it just feels weird. You make it sound like that the whole point (to me) is to be overpowered. It's not, if it was I suppose I would just cheat? The point is more the fact that it breaks immerison and fun (for me) if everything keeps adjusting to my level. If I have dedicated huge amounts of time to overcome challenges and when I return to the "main quest" the challenge is just the same that if I hadn't done all that work? Dealbreaker. To say that it's my "ego" that needs it is not a little bit insulting and quite childish. You don't have to agree with me, but please refrain from those kind of remarks when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yme said:

This is so weird to me. Should cost? What difference does it make that it was community funded?

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Some people feel entitled to a free game because other players helped fund it. It's socialist pinko commie parasitic nonsense…

As for most of the content being optional, I think that will make it feel more open and less linear. To me it's a good thing.

Fluent said:

I think Morrowind handled optional content well.

Basically, in Morrowind, you are expected and even directly told to go explore, level up, get stronger, etc., before tackling the main quest.

Without doing this, you won't be strong enough to complete the main quest.

So, you go and get stronger, level up, etc., and then start the main quest later. The tasks get even harder, so you may need to take a break again to level up more before finishing things out.

In this process, you've done a lot of the side content simply to get strong enough to handle the tough main quest, get the good items, etc.

So, if all of that content was simply optional, there wouldn't be quite the importance given to it to actually complete it. You could just blow through the game basically.

So, we'll see how it turns out. Just because I disagree a bit with the philosophy doesn't mean the game won't be good.

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If I remember correctly (it's been quite a few years) Divine Divinity also did that very well, the game also got quite difficult if you weren't careful enough with your build.

namelessone said:

If I remember correctly (it's been quite a few years) Divine Divinity also did that very well, the game also got quite difficult if you weren't careful enough with your build.

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You're absolutely right about Divine Divinity. Great example! The 'optional' content in that world was absolutely necessary to progress your character and build the strength necessary to tackle the main stuff. It was very elegantly done, indeed!

Anyone who want to get challenged in Pillars of Eternity just need to work toward the Triple Crown Solo achievement…without cheating or using exploit. That achievement is finishing the entire game solo on Path of the Damned with Trial of Iron on.

The dev consider it impossible and none of the internal QA testers achieved it.