DA:O Wow I'm Out

Dragon Age: Origins
That's just it though, people shouldn't have to change it to easy. The difficulty in DA is definitely a little skewed compared to other games, the "normal" setting is anything but normal. A lot of people complained about the difficulty of some of the battles in BG 1/2 and IWD 1/2, but I never felt any kind of outright frustration while playing those games. I think Bioware went overboard with the level scaling in DA.

I don't understand this. Why shouldn't some people have to play it on easy? That's why there is such an option. What would be the point of having it if no people should have to use it? As long as you can change the difficulty at any time, I fail to see the problem. If easy also was too hard, I would understand, but it isn't from my experience.

I agree that this game is more challenging on normal than what we are used to, but i can't understand the reason people refuse to change to easy, when it's so easy to do so. The only reason I can think of is that they don't feel heroic enough if playing on easy (as a player/real person, not as the ingame character), but isn't that a bit silly to be honest ;)

Would it be better if easy was called normal instead, and nothing else changed? There wouldn't be any difference except for the word used.

And also, not everyone think the game is too hard, and not everyone has to change it to easy. Many people are playing it on hard and even nightmare, and like the challenge.
 
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You know I keep forgetting to try the bombs. BG1 had some difficult fights but if you rationed your powerups (wands, conjuring, specialty arrows etc) there was always a solution. The final battle in BG1 took me a couple rounds but it was doable. When someone says "you need a healer in the party" that's not a very good sign for play balance on a game with a free party system? I have a fairly balanced party of two tanks, a rogue and a mage. That should be enough IMO.

The scaling is pretty brutal and you see it very clearly in the random encounters. Its amazing what they throw at you. I'm hot off finishing the Brecilian woods only to get waylaid by an army every bit as difficult as the Brecilian finale? That doesnt seem right.

I do get a sense of accomplishment in this game by winning the battles. But I definitely do NOT feel any accomplishment for leveling up. There actually is no incentive at all.
 
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I don't understand this. Why shouldn't some people have to play it on easy? That's why there is such an option. What would be the point of having it if no people should have to use it? As long as you can change the difficulty at any time, I fail to see the problem. If easy also was too hard, I would understand, but it isn't from my experience.

I agree that this game is more challenging on normal than what we are used to, but i can't understand the reason people refuse to change to easy, when it's so easy to do so. The only reason I can think of is that they don't feel heroic enough if playing on easy (as a player/real person, not as the ingame character), but isn't that a bit silly to be honest

Would it be better if easy was called normal instead, and nothing else changed? There wouldn't be any difference except for the word used.

And also, not everyone think the game is too hard, and not everyone has to change it to easy. Many people are playing it on hard and even nightmare, and like the challenge.
You're missing the point. If you had found the game comfortable to play at a certain level of difficulty at the beginning of the game, there's something wrong with the system if everybody suddenly has to suddenly move down to an easier setting a third into the game.

In any case, what would the guys downgrade to who had started the game on easy?

I had found the game laughably easy on normal during the origin stories, and still pretty easy up to the tower of Ishal. Suddenly started to have trouble during Lothering, had my a$$ handed to me a few times times during the Mages Tower, and already really struggling with Redcliffe.

Doesn't that perhaps tell you that the level scaling is pretty unbalanced?
 
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I do get a sense of accomplishment in this game by winning the battles. But I definitely do NOT feel any accomplishment for leveling up. There actually is no incentive at all.

You can get an equal sense of accomplishment by winning difficult battles in strategy games, and in action games.

I agree with you that there is no incentive to level up, in fact, I actually try and avoid it, which in the end defeats the object of this being an RPG. To me the whole idea of an RPG is improving my stats so I can become more efficient in the gameworld, and to experience a feeling of progression.

In this game, any progression is effectively cancelled out, any leveling is merely window-dressing and being given new toys to play with in the sense of of new spells and abilities, -not all of them even useful.
 
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Easy level get very hard after character hits 12 , tried archer & dual dagger rogue , nothing works .

I don't get why they made it this way , if any NPC/Beast needs more than 5 stubs to die then the game doesn't have an easy level.

This isn't my experience, but if you think it's hard, then that's how it is for you. Do you have a mage and a warrior in your party (you should have this, always)? Maybe you don't use crowd control and healing spells, or have put points in the wrong abilities? Some suggestions are to get cone of cold, sleep, and force field. And healing spells.

Sleep can take out 20 enemies at once, and force field can take out the boss enemy from a fight for a long time, long enough to kill all normal enemies before the effect wears off. And make healing potions with the herbalism skill. I had about 30 healing potions to spare almost the entire game thanks to this skill. And I could have created even more if I had wished to do so.

But if some people still think easy is too hard, then yes, patching in a very easy mode would be a good thing to do.
 
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You're missing the point. If you had found the game comfortable to play at a certain level of difficulty at the beginning of the game, there's something wrong with the system if everybody suddenly has to suddenly move down to an easier setting a third into the game.

In any case, what would the guys downgrade to who had started the game on easy?

I had found the game laughably easy on normal during the origin stories, and still pretty easy up to the tower of Ishal. Suddenly started to have trouble during Lothering, had my a$$ handed to me a few times times during the Mages Tower, and already really struggling with Redcliffe.

Doesn't that perhaps tell you that the level scaling is pretty unbalanced?

Yes, if that is the problem, then I had missed the point. the problem isn't that normal is too had, but that the game gets too hard later in the game, compared to how easy it is in the beginning. I get it. I can see this as a problem.

Maybe I missed this, because it was the opposite for me, the game got easier the longer I played, when I got access to better spells and a healer. But maybe the game doesn't scale the same on normal compared to hard (I play on hard) or something. I don't know.

EDIT: And if people think it's too hard on easy, then yes, that's a big problem, no question about it. The patch made easy mode easier, but maybe it wasn't enough.
 
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You're obviously a good strategist, Svadilfare. I'm almost tempted to restart the game on hard, to see if it's true that the scaling seems harsher on normal than on hard. I think when i do the dwarven origins I'll try it on hard. :)

On the other hand, it sounds like you are playing as a mage? ..and using your spells to best effect?

I have a mage playthrough that has already arrived at Ostergard, also on normal, now I feel it's a pity I didn't start that one on hard...
 
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For Revenants just Cone of Cold them and beat the crap out of them while they're frozen. If they're frozen they can't cast spells. By the time they un-freeze the Cone of Cold cooldown will have worn off and even if you only have one mage you can hit them with it again. After the first time I fought one of them (and they killed my entire group) I don't think I've fought one and had them not be frozen the whole fight.
 
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For Revenants just Cone of Cold them and beat the crap out of them while they're frozen. If they're frozen they can't cast spells. By the time they un-freeze the Cone of Cold cooldown will have worn off and even if you only have one mage you can hit them with it again. After the first time I fought one of them (and they killed my entire group) I don't think I've fought one and had them not be frozen the whole fight.


I'm really regretting not taking Cone of Cold with Morrigan's last level up. It was a choice between that or ugrading her shape-shifting abilities. Since she's a Shape Shifter, I chose the latter. I also thought it would be cool to be able to change into a bear. Sadly, shape-shifting seems to be a bit underpowered in this game.
 
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You're obviously a good strategist, Svadilfare. I'm almost tempted to restart the game on hard, to see if it's true that the scaling seems harsher on normal than on hard. I think when i do the dwarven origins I'll try it on hard. :)

On the other hand, it sounds like you are playing as a mage? ..and using your spells to best effect?

I have a mage playthrough that has already arrived at Ostergard, also on normal, now I feel it's a pity I didn't start that one on hard…

I'm playing a rogue, but I have Wynne or Morrigan in my party at all time (often both). I would stand no chance without mages (I have tried, and got slaughtered).
I don't know if I'm a good strategist, I think not better than anyone else, I suck at chess and starcraft for example ;).
I just think i have played many similar games, such as Icewind Dale 1 and 2 (play both at least once a year), so I have a lot of experience with this particular type of gameplay.

I'm not sure if the game scales different on hard (my guess is that it doesn't), maybe it's just that I picked the right spells, and some other people did not.

I also found out some tricks that are very useful. Potions and bombs have a cooldown timer, but potions and bombs of different strenghts/kinds doesn't share the same cooldown. This means that you can use several healing potions almost at once, and that you can throw 7 bombs almost at the same time as well. This can kill almost anything except for bosses. Poison and other weapon coatings stack, so when you are facing a difficult boss, just put on 8 coatings, stun him with dirty fighting, and backstab him.

If you enter a room full of enemies, run back out again (put everyone on hold position, so they don't run back in). Bombard the enemies with cone of cold and bombs when they try to exit the room. A glyph of repulsion in the door-opening can also be very helpful, combined with blizzard and lightning storm inside the room.
 
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I'm really regretting not taking Cone of Cold with Morrigan's last level up. It was a choice between that or ugrading her shape-shifting abilities. Since she's a Shape Shifter, I chose the latter. I also thought it would be cool to be able to change into a bear. Sadly, shape-shifting seems to be a bit underpowered in this game.

Cone of Cold indeed very useful against difficult enemies. In situations where there are enemies caster nearby i quickly move Morrigan to flank and freeze them, as i hate it when they fireballing your party or freeze your tanks with cone of cold first.
 
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Yeah, the whole skills/talents/spells system certainly isn´t perfect and I expect there will be a lot of tweakage to be had via mods or even via expansion.

Some skills and especially spells from the same tier are much more useful than the others, plus some descriptions are, well, not descriptive enough. This certainly increases the probability of having gimped characters on the first playthrough.

While I find the combat to be challenging, I´ve yet to encounter any frustrating scenario, playing on hard (level13).
However, I´m playing a mage and that´s imo the culprit.

Spells are where it´s really at, so having 3 mages at my disposal, each specialized in different spell branches (all three with at least basic heal though), makes probably quite a big difference from having only two.
While the other two classes have sufficient representation in the companion pool, imo the third mage companion would make a big difference.

I can definitely see how playing a rogue on hard can be frustrating.

Even though the class balancing isn´t perfect, at least yet, I´m really really glad there´s finally a game which played on hard really is hard.

By far the most overpowered spell is Force Field btw - I´ve defeated Flemeth without taking a single scratch with it.
 
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Most fights can be won with almost all enemies stunned in some way almost during the entire fight, if you have the right spells. Let's say you face 15 regular enemies and 1 boss, and let's say the place is a big open field. Cast sleep to begin with. Probably averyone except the boss will be stunned. Cast force field on the boss. Start killing the normal enemies, one at a time. When everyone wakes up, (maybe just 12 enemies by now), cast cone of cold on 4 of them, and crushing prison on the boss. Petrify on another one followed with stone fist. Fight 7 enemies for a couple of seconds, use group heal if needed, recast sleep and force field, repeat until win with everyone at full health, maybe thanks to more group heals and potions if needed.

But you have to have the right spells, otherwise it could seem impossible. I think the problem for some people is that they just didn't pick the best spells, and that the spells are a bit unbalanced and too vague in their descriptions, like DeepO said. Maybe my experience with the game would have been different if I had not taken cone of cold as soon as I got the chance.

And maybe people are spending their money on the wrong things. I didn't buy a single peice of armor and I think just one weapon during the entire game. It's better to buy ingredients to make 30 health potions and 30 mana potions, instead of spending the same amount of money on one platemail that will be useless once you find something better an hour later. Runes are also worth buying, and books that give you extra spells and skills.

EDIT: To Rivianwitch: I reread the first post in the thread, and I realized I had not missed the point at all. What I wrote about not changing difficulty to easy, and that I couldn't understand why some people didn't, I didn't mean what you seemed to think (and it was directed mostly to the OP). I will try to explain:

I'm not talking about if the game has a difficulty curve that is too steep on normal. Maybe that is true, I don't know, I'm not playing on normal. But that was not my point. My point was what you do when you realize that this is a fact. You can't redesign the game, so you have to do the best out of the situation. What I was talking about was what you do yourself as a player at this point, not if the game is badly balanced or not. You have several options, you could for example:

1: Quit the game, never play it again
2: Continue playing on normal even though you don't enjoy the game much, and it makes you frustrated.
3: Open the options menu and turn down the difficulty, maybe feel a bit annoyed that you had to do this, but still do it. Continue playing and forget about it.

The OP seems to do number 2, and is considering number 1. He refuse to do number 3. This is what I can't understand the reason for. Hope this clarifies things.
 
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Great tips thanks Svadilfare and all

1: Quit the game, never play it again
2: Continue playing on normal even though you don't enjoy the game much, and it makes you frustrated.
3: Open the options menu and turn down the difficulty, maybe feel a bit annoyed that you had to do this, but still do it. Continue playing and forget about it.

The OP seems to do number 2, and is considering number 1. He refuse to do number 3. This is what I can't understand the reason for. Hope this clarifies things.


Yes I was at stage 2 (whymeGod) and took advice from sensible people like yourself to perhaps turn down to easy mode if we're RPG beginners. A happy band of beginners among whose ranks I- but never mind that now :)

I don't want DAO to be a grind because there are so many beautiful scenes which are even more enjoyable when not stressed-out by endless save-load repetition. The developing story that's the thing and it's very good

Now I've got a better idea from the seasoned members of our party, tempered in blood and—but never mind that now 2—of how to use tactics and spells and so on, I'm planning my next character's Origin play to be mostly on normal mode

I didn't even know that each character has its own opening storyline. I didn't know that when your companions get that red skull (when they are down) they are not dead but only unconscious and will revive if you stay alive. I was F9-reloading every time one of my party fell unconscious :)

And in a boss fight three of us were red-grinning-skulls but Alasdair managed to wear the Revenant down (I was actually cheering him on) until he finally dropped and Alasdair revived us. Quite an RPG moment wow
Peter
 
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Talking about unbalanced options that can ruin a game, Gothic3. Not perfect no and certainly nothing like DAO which for me is already a legendary role-playing game

As long as you are aware that it is possible to ruin a game for yourself by choosing googled simplifiers- all should be well. The mage character's power in DAO is something that I will take care to inspect when I play that character. Cone of Cold for example certainly seems to be the equivalent of-

Gothic3's auto-generation of mana. I had trouble up in the North and found a tip to get that ability. It was much too powerful

But the difference between G3 and DAO is that DAO has this staggeringly-huge and delicious content with marvellous scenes and characters and plots.

It may be easy to get through the fights in DAO in easy mode but in G3 that was all there was. No beef :)
Peter
 
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Only read your edit now, Svadilfare. I do see what you are saying, now that you've aloborated your point, but: I've seen the OP around on the forum, and I know that he is pretty experienced, and not normally phased by the difficulty of a game, so I kind of understand where he is coming from. I do agree with your point however, but still, I think one should voice one's opinion, since sometimes devs listen to gamers…

I suppose I shouldn't talk too much about enjoying challenge and tactics in an RPG, since I tend to get my tactics & strategy fix from RTS games, and TBS games like the HOMM and Disciples series, King's Bounty etc.

I will humbly admit that, especially in solo-play RPG's I'm one of those powergamers who grind for exp. :roll: Level scaling of enemies tends to mess that up, but I suppose it also depends what kind of RPG we are talking, and how the scaling is implemented.

I do understand the need for a continued challenge tactics-wise, but there are different ways to implement this. Newer harder enemies can be introduced, instead of simply having your initial enemies get stronger, which seems unrealistic to me, unless you build it into the story; something like: As time goes by, the more time the darkspawn spends in the realm of humans, the stronger they become, as they feed off the collective life-energy of humans… :biggrin:


EDIT: And since Evan mentioned it, for instance, the Gothic games are good for both grinding and for building up certain strategies and tactics… but that is a different dynamic, since you've got a solo avatar.
 
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I am definitely a number 2! Wait that didnt sound right.... :)

Yes I refuse to admit defeat and would rather slog through and hate DA than drop it to Easy. I will not admit being beaten by this game without exhausting every alternative before outright quitting. If I quit it didnt technically beat me BTW, the game in that case was simply too cowardly to launch itself and face my prowess.

Anyway... I'm in the abandoned derelict house right now at the final battle. I've already been wiped out once there and twice elsewhere in the house. Tough game, but I'm still slogging along ;)
 
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I will not admit being beaten by this game without exhausting every alternative before outright quitting.

I think Todd mentioned something about black cats and rituals that involve bloodletting and symbols drawn onto his mousepad... :biggrin: ROFL
 
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Yes I refuse to admit defeat and would rather slog through and hate DA than drop it to Easy.

He heh.. I felt the same way playing Geneforge 5 recently. I had chosen to play as an "Agent" and apparently that is one of the hardest classes to play. And I hadn't played the other games in the series, so I didn't know all the creations and spells. Anyway, I lost *many* battles and reloaded *many* times, playing on normal. Yet I simply refuse to drop down to easy mode (in this case it's even worse: Jeff called that difficulty "casual". What?!? Casual?? I'm *not* a casual CRPG player! :) )

In the end I finally "got" the game and understood the tactics that would allow me to win - and I did complete the game on normal difficulty. And then the victory felt even sweeter than most other CRPGs I've beaten, but there were times where I was close to wiping the damn thing of my harddrive in frustration :)
 
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While I've found it hard - and a couple of battles have been frustrating - level ups have provided me with more options, which gives me a definite sense of progression. Getting Cone of Cold or Force Field for Morrigan, for example, have completely changed the game.

Can we watch the spoilers, please? I don't want to whine about it but I didn't know anything about fighting a certain person.
 
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