Reasons Your RPG is Disappointing @ Blend Games

Dhruin

SasqWatch
Joined
August 30, 2006
Messages
11,842
Location
Sydney, Australia
Reasons Your Role-Playing Game is Disappointing is a piece at Blend Games that looks at some of the recurring problems in the genre. My list would be different but these are all valid. From the beginning:
The weakest part of many role-playing games is the first hour or so. Why? Because they take so damn long to get started. Developers decide they have to ease the players into the game so they begin the game at the main character's military academy or peaceful rustic hometown. The latter is the worse of the two, by far. An RPG that begins in a small country village always starts something like this: "Hello child, can you fetch me some apples? Don't forget the festival is in town today! Your rambunctious friend said he'd meet you there! OH MY GOD MASKED MARAUDERS ARE BURNING THE VILLAGE, SAVE YOURSELF!!!" Examples that come to mind are Fable and Neverwinter Nights 2.
More information.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
11,842
Location
Sydney, Australia
Truly annoying issues indeed. I find all of them valid, although I'd have to add "choices with consequences" and a few other things as well. Good writing is probably the biggest lack in general, but that's hard to do anything about - not that many great writers around.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,583
Location
Bergen
I think the best part of the game is the beginning. All your options are still open with the way you want to develop the character and the battles are normally more even and harder as you fight or quest your way to grow. Granted I am a little sick and tired of "kill the rat quests", but sometimes there are some interesting beginning quests (Bloodlines had an awsome tutorial/beginning. Jack is the man:)). If there isn't an interesting beginning at least it's fun deciding which way my guy should go in his training and in The Witchers case which way I want the whole story to go.

Where RPGs get dissapointing is in the middle of the game. If the story isn't good enough to compell me to keep going I'll put it aside for another day which normally never comes. Two Worlds is a great example of how fun the game was at the start but slowly become more tedious as the plot didn't really develop and my character was almost invincible even on the hard setting.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
.....but I like starting in a rural village and village festivals.......... :((
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
23
I agree with the article on the "first hour."

I just tried to start playing Baldur's Gate, and Jesus H it's boring. I'm sure it gets better, but I have spent about an hour fedexing stuff between characters in the courtyard for 50 xp rewards, as my character languorously moseys across the screen. There's a whole thread about my travails in getting started with BG2. NWN OC was just as bad. NWN 2 OC was *almost* as bad; that didn't really get started until Chapter 2.

There are exceptions, though. Jade Empire got right in the action, as did MotB, VtM:B and the KOTOR's.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
8,540
"because they take so damn long to get started" ...?

In my books, there is no better way of beginning a long haul rpg than with the underdog hero-in-waiting wimp armed with only a loincloth and a penknife or jawbone of a giant rat to defend themselves to survive against attacking beasts in some dark slimy jail or dungeon (Daggerfall). Then gradually, the strength, dex', stamina, skills etc' begin to build into a super hero as the game slowly evolves. A well written cohesive storyline will keep the player on track.

"Survival" is indeed the first basic human instinct, hence "the first hour" - power and glory must come much later.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
1,105
Location
North-West England
I think the reasons why we would think an rpg is boring, is sometimes triggered by the quantity of the games we already played. For someone new to RPG's the kill the rat quest is good and normal.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,539
Location
Belgium - Flanders - Antwerp
I like the way Gothic starts:
"Yadi yadi, take this to the leader of the fire magicians"
BAM
.. And that's the start, from now on you need to get by on your own, with a few tips from Diego.

I understand that a lot of players want a slow start (let's face it, Gothic is generally known to be way too hard in the beginning - a lot of players quit before even figuring out the combat system), but I love it.

In fact, the biggest drawback in NWN2 (imho) is the few hours (MotB changed this, and had a great start).

Edit: Yes, I agree Bartacus - we are getting spoiled, and have seen everything so many times before. It very rarely feels as exciting nowadays as it did before.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,583
Location
Bergen
I don't mind the occasional Fed-ex quest, or the gradual beginning of most rpgs. I think it's important with new rpgs to try to avoid some of the cliches that have been over-used in the past, but starting out as an already powerful character takes some of the fun out of the game, I think.

His point about crappy inventory systems is pretty valid, though.

@Bartacus/Maylander--great minds think alike.;)
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,834
i dont mind the humble beginnings, it gets me settled into a game and gives me time to get adjusted to the control scheme and gives me time to soak up the "curb appeal" of a game. It does make restarts pretty tedious tho!

As for the rest of the list, it's par for the course in the genre oftentimes, and just a matter of one (most times repetitive combat) being awful enough to push you to where you dont want to play it anymore.

One thing that I wish was convention was a storage box somewhere, that would kinda help alleviate the problem of a cumbersome inventory.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
5,228
Location
San Diego, Ca
Well He has a lot of good points:
The slow beginning: most games have that and only a few are as good as Gothic's beginning.
Fed -ex: Awfull, although it can be fun sometimes if it turns out to be more than just fed - ex or interesting NPCs or consequences
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
belgium-genk
If done right, option 2 can be good. Take BG1. The first part at Candlekeep is pretty fun and enjoyable. But yeah, NWN2 was a bit tedious at the beginning.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
4,353
Location
Austin, TX
I like humble beginnings but they can't be slow adn tedious.
Like gothic (again) you are a weak shrimp who is trown in to the world with a lot of creatures who can kill you in a bite if you are not carefull in the beginning
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
belgium-genk
I would have played NWN2 (and a few other games) more often if I could just start in chapter 2 or 3 (like in NWN1). But no, I have to do this boring village, swamp, road, stupid town and stupid habor until I get into the real story. That is so not funny.

By the way, the same with Drakensang. I would like to choose a different class, but I'm about 8 hours into the game and I just don't have the nerve or time to start again from the beginning. I do so need chapters I can select to play. Really. Very Really. Very, very really.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
465
Location
Saarbruecken
If you're just spinning your wheels, and you know it, then a beginning can be nothing more than the first annoying part of a disappointing game. That's because there's no intrigue. If you can plainly see there's no real point to what you're doing, then you've got to be awfully hardcore not to get at least a little impatient.

I'd like to play an RPG where I'm faced with making all kinds of choices without having any clear idea where any of them will lead or which ones will turn out to have been pivotal . How boldly should I walk down the street? Do I avert my eyes from the washer-women in the town square as they bend over to do their work? Should I offer a smile to the one on the right or acknowledge the one I'm already receiving from the one on the left?

If there's too much emphasis on who you decide to kill or not, who you decide to be available to really talk to or not, then you're liable to get bored whenever you go through periods of the game without those decisions to make.

I don't want to just walk around and talk to things any more than I want to just drive around and crash into them. I want to have personality and style, and I want that to count for something. If I act like Conan, then I want to have Conan-like adventures. But if I act like Bilbo Baggins, then I want to experience an adventure more like his.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,807
Location
Orange County, California
I don't know if humble beginnings are the problem as such. They can work well if they're written to work well. Hell, I've DM'ed some pretty damn exciting first-level campaign starts. There's no reason that low-power gaming has to be boring; power is a relative matter after all.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
8,540
I see no problem with either fast or slow beginning of the game if the story, atmosphere and world design satisfactory follows the reasons of the fast/slow beginning . I personally prefer slow start, being a nobody and slowly rising into a legend.

About FedEx quests, i dont see why people hate them, every rpg is filled with those type of quests, basically every rpg has only two types quests, fedex and "go there and kill someone" type of quests. What makes them interesting or uninteresting is writing and design. Example VTB fedex quest to retrieve necklace from hunted hotel or PT quest to bring "gift" to some shop keeper are examples of interesting fedex quests and you have your typical Morrowind/Oblivion quest that seem to be written by a infant.

The fact is that todays lack of quality rpgs are not because of the type of quests or bad combat mechanics, but because of poor writing, storytelling and generic world design. Who in the hell is not already bored by saving the world type of stories.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
21
I see no problem with either fast or slow beginning of the game if the story, atmosphere and world design satisfactory follows the reasons of the fast/slow beginning . I personally prefer slow start, being a nobody and slowly rising into a legend.

About FedEx quests, i dont see why people hate them, every rpg is filled with those type of quests, basically every rpg has only two types quests, fedex and "go there and kill someone" type of quests. What makes them interesting or uninteresting is writing and design. Example VTB fedex quest to retrieve necklace from hunted hotel or PT quest to bring "gift" to some shop keeper are examples of interesting fedex quests and you have your typical Morrowind/Oblivion quest that seem to be written by a infant.

The fact is that todays lack of quality rpgs are not because of the type of quests or bad combat mechanics, but because of poor writing, storytelling and generic world design. Who in the hell is not already bored by saving the world type of stories.

Yes and thats exactly why Fallout 1 & 2 and Arcanum were the perfect examples of what can be achieved in gameplay on all levels in a CRPG (except on the tactical combat aspect..no biggy for the wealth of all the other gameplay available). Deus Ex and SS1 & SS2 before it also did excellent jobs at this as they brought the FPS realm into the Adventure and RPG domains, and did it well.

The only games I see trying to match those aforementioned levels of gameplay out now and soon to be are, the Witcher, NWN2 MotB/SoZ and mods, Alpha Protocol might in some ways reach Deus Ex like levels, Afterfall and of course Age of Decadence.

As there is much more to the best and deepest PNP RPG campaigns, so too can there be much more to CRPGs, but it takes tons of effort, creatvity, imagination, and vision, and all in one development group, so it is rare to find that synchronicity as much as we'd like.

As Deus Ex begat a hybrid evolution of the FPS, it also still stands today with SS1 & 2 at the apex of its own hybrid genre, becuase it took what can only be described as a monumental effort to achieve, like a moonshot for action games. And so were fallout and arcanum in their quest philosophies.

CRPGs and their hybrids which have investigation, mystery, or even espionage can overcome the standard fed ex hit man type quests. To find lots of these one can search through the hundreds of NWN1 mods and find several dozen as I have, out of which at least a dozen were as good as any commercial product.

Another game, the Guild 1 & 2 is almost a CRPG hybrid, and it focuses on everything but fed ex and hit man type quests. If it had more rpg elements it would be a near perfect hybrid with unique RPG gamplay.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
238
Location
Hungary and USA
They also forgot an aspect which, for some reason, most gamers I know have no problems with - party members with the “I will often butt in in whatever task you may be doing, even if it is one that will help us, to remind you that we need to hurry and stop the evil foozle, but will have no quals with suddenly spurting out trivia about my emo past in search of acceptance by my peers and/or trying to find someone to copulate with” syndrome.

Good god, people, that's not being deep. It's bloody annoying.
 
Back
Top Bottom