KoA: Reckoning - 20 Minutes of Action and More

lostforever said:

Actually 300 hours worries me! In this day and age I don't think any developer can deliver "meaty" RPG which last for 300 hours. No way! So my feeling is its going to be a grindfest

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If you consider the Elder Scrolls as grindfest, KoA is going to be as well for you. It's the same type of game.

Not sure what to think of KoA:R after that video. I was cautiously hopeful about KoA:R after some dev interviews before this, but the combat (no matter what they say) makes me hesitant. It looks to be of the "awesome button" school of combat design and very twitch-heavy. It could work, hard to say without trying it myself, but it just doesn't look particularly good in that video with all that jumping and warping around (even through the enemies), with QTE-like power attacks and with all that "dramatic action posing". Still, it could work, but have to wait and see.

What was good was the apparent availability of choosing your own way through the vast game world and the multitude of actions with item crafting and customization and the like. It still holds promise of a solid RPG, albeit action RPG, but the combat worries me somewhat. Nevertheless, this quote makes me hopeful:

"In conclusion: I do solemnly swear by the array of Ultima cloth maps on my wall that Reckoning is an RPG."
- Ian S. Frazier, Lead Designer, Big Huge Games

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I think my main concern with that combat system, is that they do seem to want to appeal to the traditional RPG fans.

The problem with that, is that they can't do an "arcade combat system" in terms of challenge. Most traditional fans would probably accept it if it wasn't hard to pull off combos, and if it was all about pushing a few buttons at appropriate moments.

That means they're stuck with what might look fantastic, but which can't be challenging. You don't want to make a truly challenging arcade combat system in an open world RPG - because your audience would be tiny.

So, I guess that means we'll get a great looking system that poses no challenge. More or less exactly like the Fable games.

I honestly can't think of any way around that.

Maybe they've come up with some kind of compromise, and I'll be interested to see how they'll solve that problem.

I don't know many traditional RPG fans who would find that type of combat appealing. On the contrary, I think what I've seen of KoA so far would appeal more to fans who were introduced to the genre by games like Fable and Oblivion.

No, I think you're right.

But they don't really have to find it appealing - just accept it. I think most people would be willing to accept it, if the game has enough of the traditional strong RPG features - like exploration, C&C, and lore.

The problem, as I said above, is that I don't think they will accept such a combat system - if it in any way requires them to have fast reflexes or strain their arcade abilities. It seems to me that most traditional RPG fans are kinda "stuck" in how they want combat to work, and if not turn-based - they at least want a very tactical and cerebral system. Just look at the reaction to The Witcher 2 combat - which in my opinion was pretty fantastic.

Personally, I can accept most combat systems if done well - but what I REALLY don't enjoy, is a combat system where my ability (whether in terms of reflexes, tactical sense, or strategic sense) doesn't really matter.

I don't care how great the combat looks, if I don't have to invest to succeed. That bores me endlessly.

Melvil said:

How many times have folks been disappointed by the somewhat bad combat of Gothic 3/Risen, Morrowind et al, but when a game tries to fix that by offering something that has fluidity and visceral satisfaction we get….more complaints. It never ends.

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This is true. I like combat that is resolved quickly, unless it is turn-based. I love Knights of the Chalice, but I prefer something like DKS for real-time stuff.

I've seen one interview with Frazier where he said that there are two ways to get "good" at combat, to the point where you are consistently killing enemies 2-4 levels above you. One way is to master the action mechanics, by learning to time blocks, mastering the timing of combos, dodges, etc. The other way is to carefully and meticulously build your character by making intelligent choices in skill-point allocation, keeping your equipment up-to-date and top-notch through crafting and looting, and using abilities like traps, stealth, and spells. So the theory is that if you play this like a hardcore RPG, you can be successful at combat without mastering the twitch mechanics. And likewise, if you play this like an action game and aren't into that "boring" inventory management or whatnot, than you can also find success. That's what they claim, anyway.

The concern about making this accessible to both action and RPG players in terms of difficulty is a valid one, but that's usually what the difficulty setting is for. Knowing the way I play games, I'll probably try to min-max my character AND attempt to master the twitch mechanics. So I'll probably go for at least the Hard setting or higher if it's available, and go from there....

I feel the combat and graphic look like an action game, that being said it looks or soons like it has a great story. I mean combat years and years ago wasn't that great either. I still like what I am reading about this game and will spend the money on it.

I don't know...I was introduced to rpg's back in the apple 2 days...and I find the combat just fine, I don't think all combat should remain the same between each game, this might be a refreshing take on stale combat engines that we have been given the last little while...I mean, most games are still using the baldurs gate/nwn pause and give commands, which works but is getting old.

I agree with D'Artagnon (what, again?!). I'll probably "put up" with the combat to get the other stuff, like I do with a lot of games. It will be interesting to see how the market embraces this combination of beat-em-up combat with open-world RPG.

KoA is going to be a special game. Curt Schilling and a few of the devs stated there is 300 hours of gameplay if one chooses to do play through all the content in the game. It's going to be massive. Plus, Reckoning is going to not only immerse us in a great fleshed-out world of incredible lore written by RA Salvatore, but also immerse us in the combat system as well. Every move has heft and feeling to it, which convinces you that every move you make in combat means something. Now I personally don't agree that all the combat before Reckoning was bad, I liked it. I even liked Morrowind's combat over Oblivions, but that's another story. The combat in Reckoning is going to be great though, and you'll actually have a lot of fun killing a group of boggarts (wooden forest creatures).

Also, as it's already been stated, you can get good at the game by using your action game skills, OR you can level up your character in a smart way and use traditional RPG techniques to beat the game. That's exciting in and of itself. I know RPG fans weren't screaming for action combat, at least I wasn't, but it's here and it's going to make the game much different from others on the market. Plus being massively open-world, you're going to get all the goodies from a game like Morrowind, except it's third person and very colorful and vibrant.

I have my concerns like everyone else, but I cannot wait for this game to be released.

Making success in combat a matter of action game skills OR being smart - will lessen the importance of both things.

I simply can't wrap my head around not having to be good at action combat and the huge emphasis on action combat. If my RPG skills alone can win the battles, then why the big spectacle? Just to have something to watch?

Nah, I'll have to see this for myself before I buy into the hype of this combat system.

I don't mind action combat provided its not too hard to learn. I have been sort of bored of combat in RPGs recently so looking forward to trying something new.

I saw other videos from the main site and I am not too keen on the WOW type graphics. For some reason it does not seem to draw me into the world. I think I am used to the "brown" tinted words of Gothic and TES games.

Other thing that worries me about the game after watching the more videos from the main site is lore and story for the world and game. Again they remind me of WoW, one dimensional simplistic lore and story. I have to stay though I have only seen bits and pieces from those videos.

I am ccautiously optimistic for this game. We need more open world RPGs.

I'm getting to old to keep getting my hopes up and believing everything a developer says. There either spouting bullshit are I end up disappointed. But hey who knows We'll see.

I'm waiting for real reviews.