California Fire

I was just about to post about this too. The situation here is surreal (I'm in the southwest part of Orange County, inside a mile of the coast).

This morning I ventured out to a local coffee shop on Pacific Coast Highway and found it jammed packed with folks who have flocked here after being evacuated from surrounding areas. They filled up the local hotels and campgrounds. Honestly, I've been in partial denial these past few days, sitting at home alone, trying but unable to work. It was a reality check and a shock to go out and see what’s happening firsthand.

Unlike Katrina refugees, these were well dressed and groomed. Many had laptops and were using them to make phone calls (the shop is a WiFi hot spot). I spoke with a few and found myself struggling. I can usually be glib when I want to be, but not this morning.

That billion dollar figure is just for San Diego County alone, btw. The total cost of all of this will likely be a lot more. That's just the money, of course.

This is another reason to be disgusted with George W. Bush too. The federal government has spent billions fighting in Iraq but can't afford to invest in resources to prevent disasters like this one.
 
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This is another reason to be disgusted with George W. Bush too. The federal government has spent billions fighting in Iraq but can't afford to invest in resources to prevent disasters like this one.
What hey? Yeah, Dubya should have given Mother Nature a stern talking-to about that whole dry, hot, and windy thing. Puh-leeze. Actually, it might be fun to point out that logging companies are required to put large fire breaks in any forests they work in, which would have made this situation far less disasterous (less chance to spread and better access for fire fighting equipment). If the environmentalists want pristine nature, they done got pristine nature in all her MF'ing fury. So rather than blame Dubya, go punch a tree hugger in the mush.
 
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So firefighting capabilities have nothing to do with it? I can think of tens of millions of people who would all disagree with you at the moment, but you're welcome to that opinion.
 
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not to mention most of the california national guard who are "predisposed" at the moment...
 
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You've got a state-sized tinder box due to the weather and environmental policies. Nothing anyone can do about that. Nothing short of a galactic-scale Niagara Falls is going to supply enough water to douse an entire state (and yes, I know we're really talking primarily 2 counties, but I bet the acreage in those counties isn't too far behind the state of Rhode Island--for fire fighting purposes, you might as well say "entire state"). All the money in the world wouldn't mean squat. Now, had the forests been properly managed (as the highly regulated logging industry might do), you would have had a dozen smaller, contained fires for which you already have adequate manpower and equipment. I actually have a great deal of sympathy for the masses of people affected by this. Most of them probably couldn't give two hoots about hugging a tree. Their only fault is not giving thought to the results of "environmentally friendly" policies foisted on them by certain groups. Ask a global climatologist about forest fires in "the old days". They've got evidence of forest fires that were thousands of miles across. Mother Nature is a mean old bag and there's a price to be paid for trying to play in her sandbox. I'm not proposing we black-top the whole world, but it's naive to think there are no consequences to letting the Earth do what it wants.
 
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dteowner, I've lived in Southern California for 45 years, and I've never seen even one logging truck. Maybe up in the mountains; I don't know. But you have the wrong idea about what's happened here.

Every Southern California TV station has been interviewing firemen, and they all say the same thing: "We're doing our best, but our firefighting resources are stretched too thin." In other words, we could do more with additional resources. Some are quite specific. None would agree with your assessment.

California is the size of the entire UK, btw. The fires are big but not that big. You're way, way off. Besides, they start out small. Most get extinguished right away. These might have been too if there were more helicopters, more planes, etc. to fight them.
 
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Glad to see some posts from you CA people and know you're okay. My husband grew up in San Diego, and he says he can remember these kinds of fires from when he was kid(he's old, too) so the devastation isn't all George Bush's fault--though not having any National Guard around can certainly be laid at his door as C.U. said-(-we're losing another 500 from Oklahoma on their way to Iraq shortly, leaving us with 50% of the kids who signed up for college money around to help out in the next flood or fire or tornado that passes through here. )

One thing that does impress me is the behavior of these people; standing in line patiently, expressing polite gratitude to be housed in a football stadium as their homes and all they own as a result of their life's work may be burning down...I don't know that I would be able to be so polite or so calm, and I hope things get under control out there soon.
 
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You had a dozen small fires that were wind-driven together (no fire breaks!) to form 3 large fires. Those 3 might be one huge one now--I haven't checked any news on it today. I don't for a second deny that the firefighters are now out of their depth, and that's not a slight on them at all. Unless you handed a hose to every 3rd person in the USA, you'd be out of your depth. I do wonder if you'd get the same response from the firefighters if the situation was a dozen small, contained fires.

I know there's no logging trucks. That's actually my point. The California environmentalists have had an impact on industry and land management. It didn't have to be the logging industry--they just represent a source of proper management (and that's not that they're saints, they're regulated to the hilt as they probably should be). You've got movie stars camping out in trees because they don't want "evil corporate types" to defile the land. That's fine, but that means Mother Nature is in charge.

Good point on behaviour, magerette. This isn't really too far behind Katrina/New Orleans if you consider the scope of damage and the number of people displaced. And yet we don't have looting and shooting and all the ugliness. That says something.
 
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There are fire breaks all over the place, dteowner. In fact, I doubt you could find more anywhere in the world. It's hot and dry, and we don't have a lot of water. You're not the only one who noticed -- really.

So environmentalists obstruct fire prevention? I suppose that's possible, but I've always seen it the other way around, that they understand that sort of stuff best of all.

I do appreciate the kind words. Sometimes there isn't much sympathy for California. I once dated a woman from Oregon who told me about a party she had hosted up there when Malibu homes were slipping into the ocean. They all sat around watching it on TV over cocktails. She summed up the reason why with one word.
 
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It's a combination of effects. Mostly it's the environment. It's just really dry there, and there has been a drought for 7 years. These are brush fires, not forest fires. Logging is not viable on a large scale in southern California. If you talk about the fires in the west a few years back that certainly had a cause by those that resisted thinning of the forest. For perhaps a hundred years the policy of the forest service was to put out any fire. This policy resulted in the build up of ground clutter which eventually led to some huge fires. One of the major ones which was actually started by the forest service as they tried to thin out the forests. The Yellowstone fire is a good example of bad forest management. Yellowstone's megafire was the result of a century of complete fire suppression. The result is more trees, and ground clutter, more fuel for the huge fire that resulted.

Basically it's just a really bad place to build. Like building on a flood plain. You may get lucky for many years but sooner or later that big flood is going to come and wipe you out.
 
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i'm thankful that california has progressive enviromental controls. its worth not only protecting our vast resources of the state but also the sheer range on natural beauty that no other state comes close to. there's an insane amount of fires every year but usually in less populated areas. this year has had some notable ones dispite reports that we are about average: catalina, lake tahoe, and now so cal have all had pretty devasting fires this year alone. of course then we have good 'ol earthquakes that not to many other states really have to give a thought about. and then the fear of a megaflood. where i live in sacramento particular, has been talked about for a while now has the potential of being even worse of a disaster than katrina. man i don't hope so. but you know what has made it worse? people not listening to the sane enviromentalists but instead building up in outlying areas below the levees. but all those people now have their chain malls and cookie cutter homes in lands that less than a decade ago were floodplains. californians will always be on the edge of disasters but when we start importing enviromental tactics of our eastern states who have their lands "doneover" centuries ago we are in real trouble;)

while i don't work for an environmental agency, i do work for the state agency responsible for managing all state soveriegn lands which mostly include its waters. our primary concern is making sure the public's interest is served and that they have access, and other rights. its been an enlightening two years which has grown on me. whether its joe blow putting a dock on lake tahoe, or an oil company putting up a platform off the coast of santa barbara we are one of the final hoops they have to jump through. i get to "dig through the past" quite often, which is usually more fun than identifing, labeling, and curating dead beetles which i did for 5 years prior.
 
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It just sickens me when I see it or think of it. So many without homes, so much distruction. I can only keep all of you in my prayers.
 
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It's been pretty rough going for days, but me and my family (and cats Gandalf,Gizmo,Gimli ='.'= ) are ok. It was very scary for a while tho, with that huge witch creek fire right above us (we're in Santee/Lakeside east sd county area), and the Harris fire encroaching upon Spring Valley from below. I lost two days of work, and besides a backache from hastily moving everything of value into vehicles, that's the extent of it. It could have been really bad, since I work in Poway, which is right next to Ramona where it started. It could have wiped out my work and home both.

I had this nightmare vision for a couple days of both of the witch and harris fires meeting in the middle and wiping out San Diego!
 
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It just sickens me when I see it or think of it .


Youll get alot sicker finding out that someone as done it in 3 different places aacording too CNN and the reward is70.000.00$ for their arrest FBI is working on the case...



I had this nightmare vision for a couple days of both of the witch and harris fires meeting in the middle and wiping out San Diego!

OMG.....that would be terrible if it came true... thats all it needs all the resourse already tined out and hardly anyone to fight the battle *Shudders*
 
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One thing that does impress me is the behavior of these people; standing in line patiently, expressing polite gratitude to be housed in a football stadium as their homes and all they own as a result of their life's work may be burning down...I don't know that I would be able to be so polite or so calm, and I hope things get under control out there soon.

I would say this is the caused by two things:
a) a higher social class of people who have better manners
b) richer people who can 'afford' to lose something
Don't forget that when you don't have a good insurance (poor people) you don't get so much money when your house burns down.
 
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It looks absolutely awful out there. My sympathy and best wishes to everyone affected -- may you and your loved ones come through unscathed.
 
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best wishes to everyone involved..the damage looks terrible from the news.:/ and good to see all the watch guys from CA in good health.
 
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