Dead State - DoubleBear Review Controversy

It seems DoubleBear has gotten themselves in a bad situation on Steam after trying to take down a review that was to critical of their game Dead State.

I found information on two different websites.

The Eccentric Gamer

Developer of Dead State, DoubleBear, is trying to get a critical review of their game pulled from Steam. Here is the review and why this really should not be happening.

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Techraptor

A situation evolved overnight on Steam regarding DoubleBear’s kickstarted game Dead State and a flagged review. We held off on reporting what was going on until we had more information. However, since DoubleBear has released an official statement and neither party has responded as of yet, we feel we need to give you the facts that there currently are.

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More information.

Wow, that sucks for DoubleBear. Reading the comments from the techraptor link everyone seems against them. After reading the techraptor article showing that guy's posts I was siding with DoubleBear, but it seems like I'm again in the minority as per usual.

That is it for DoubleBear, they are not going to recover after this kind of publicity. Let's remember them as ones who took one for all the gaming industry practicing releases of the broken games.

domein said:

That is it for DoubleBear, they are not going to recover after this kind of publicity. Let's remember them as ones who took one for all the gaming industry practicing releases of the broken games.

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No one releases perfect games. All games need patches. Mistakes are made. This isn't taking one for all the gaming industry. This is one douche ruining the livelihoods of people who pored their hearts and souls into creating something. People are forgetting that doublebear is made up of people. People aren't perfect, people make mistakes. You can treat them like an evil corporation, or you can treat them like a group of people who started making an indy rpg on their own time well before this kickstarter craze because they love making games.

It's an amazing game, I'm still playing it. I can see how some people would be disappointed but it doesn't take away from the quality of work. It did get released early and does need patches but so do many great RPGs, Bloodlines anyone?

Never heard of that game nor that developer.
But it's good when small fishes eat themselves instead of waiting for bigger ones to do it.

joxer said:

Never heard of that game nor that developer.

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How could you not have heard about Dead State Joxer? It was covered multiple times on this site, and was just released this month on December 4th.

Link- http://www.rpgwatch.com/games/dead-state-396/news.html

Anyway this type of stuff makes me happy I don't deal with the public at work anymore.

domein said:

That is it for DoubleBear, they are not going to recover after this kind of publicity.

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How? It is not as it is the first time.
During early access, one Steam user going by the name of TheJynx (if I remember well) posted a review that went extremelly popular. The most popular, by far, point of view that Dead State collected.
And poof, it was removed. The most informative, the most popular, the most read review and it was gone.

I mentioned that story some time ago and probably posted a link to the Steam user's review.

A lot of ideology and associated dogmatism come hand in hand with the crowdfunding process. No matter what studios do, they will receive support.

DoubleBear clearly does not have enough to put out an okay game. This fiasco shows their inadequacy. I watched their gameplay video and as I said this is a mediocre game and no amount of bug fixing will remedy that.

Marketing was luckily solved for them with people getting the itch to play watching The Walking Dead TV shows and similar stuff. So people are willing to consume crap = McDonalds~FastFood category videogames like Dead State if people are hungry enough.

I agree that DS shouldn't have been released at such a buggy state yet but I hardly think it was to dupe gamers and I don't think DB deserves the kind and degree of flak it's getting. Bethesda releases notoriously buggy games and I find their games more buggy than DS and they don't exert much effort trying to fix them. So far, I haven't encountered any game stopping bugs in DS and my PC is usually very finicky.

joxer said:

Never heard of that game nor that developer.
But it's good when small fishes eat themselves instead of waiting for bigger ones to do it.

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Selective hearing and perception, that's a first...

Not really.
It's more of a selective memory.

joxer said:

Never heard of that game nor that developer.

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Strange, since you've posted about it before. In fact, as recently as 3 weeks ago you said you wouldn't buy it:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061290741&postcount=6

I didn't say I didn't post about it before.

Now cook the whole thing but add to the recipe an ingredient that I'm (lawful?) evil.

A slight offtopic...
Where the hell did dartagnan disappear? I haven't seen ignored posts for a month!

joxer said:

Never heard of that game nor that developer.
But it's good when small fishes eat themselves instead of waiting for bigger ones to do it.

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Couchpotato said:

How could you not have heard about Dead State Joxer? It was covered multiple times on this site

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Im surprised too. Joxer was probably too busy to notice because he was fighting against his Christmas nightmare - respawning fish on Christmas dinner!!

Bubbles said:

Wow, that sucks for DoubleBear. Reading the comments from the techraptor link everyone seems against them. After reading the techraptor article showing that guy's posts I was siding with DoubleBear, but it seems like I'm again in the minority as per usual.

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You are in the minority because it is absurd to support a company that censors and bans criticisms, personally attacks those same people, and purposely release buggy and incomplete games way before they are ready.

I've been wondering where Dartagnan went as well. I miss the guy.

I'm not wading through all this internet drama, but I'll just say that I support Double Bear and I hope others will, too. Mitsoda and crew are responsible for amazing games and I hope going forward they have the opportunity to make more RPGs for all of us to enjoy.

mercy said:

I watched their gameplay video and as I said this is a mediocre game and no amount of bug fixing will remedy that.

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If they restrict to bug fixing, that is one point.
The current version of the product barely deserves the title of game as gameplay is in such an early state.
Either they drop the towel before assembling the gameplay, they do not manage to assemble it. Or they manage.
It is too early to state it is a mediocre game as it is not yet a game.
Lets see what happens.

SonOfCapiz said:

I don't think DB deserves the kind and degree of flak it's getting. Bethesda releases notoriously buggy games

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Bethesda releases games. It is not so much an issue of bugs (the last patch solves a lot of bugs) The issue is that the gameplayof DS is still empty.

It is surprising to read that DB receives flak in any kind or degree. Just on this site, all the blog reviews were positive, ending with the comment the reviewers like it (and liking a game is what matters, whether the game is good or not)
How many of the posted reviews stress the buggy release state (when they reviewed, the last patch was not yet out)
How many stress how incomplete the gameplay features are?
And you can find many posts praising how the game is good and many posters liking it.
All in all, it looks much more like love. Maybe not enough love. But still love.

shadow9d9 said:

You are in the minority because it is absurd to support a company that censors and bans criticisms, personally attacks those same people, and purposely release buggy and incomplete games way before they are ready.

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The guy they banned was being an entitled prick in my opinion. One of the developers thought so too and made some regretful posts about it. Is this enough to fuck with people's livelihood?

I had to fire someone a couple weeks ago over some real nonsense. Right before Christmas. I took all my vacation and I'm seriously thinking about not going back. I don't mind firing people when they had it coming and have been counseled numerous times but this was nonsense. And the timing was awful. One person thinks work is Beverly Hills 90210 and needs constant drama and she got someone fired and was all smiles when the person who was fired was cleaning her desk out. Messing with people's livelihoods is a big deal.

A company being destroyed is a big deal. These are real people with feelings and emotions. One person did something regrettable (but understandable in my opinion) and now the whole company is being destroyed. Anyone who thinks people's livelihoods should be destroyed because one person made a mistake is a dick. Maybe the majority of people are dicks and that's why I'm in the minority. I'm all for messing with people, and hell, I'm even down for a good old fashion fight, but when it comes to something that has serious repercussions to someone's life and livelihood I don't take that lightly, and I think people are way too ready and willing to seriously hurt people's lives over nonsense.

A negative review that also happened to be the most popular, most consulted review was also taken down during the early access period.
So what? What was done previously is being tried again.

Crowdfunded people are paid in advance. There are situations where you are paid after the work is done, when you have to go into debt to initiate work, when you are only worth your last performance etc


After that, it is a matter of priority on vision of entitlement. But when you are paid in advance, you are entitled. People are free to put that entitled situation after situations when people do not get pay even they perform a totally acceptable work output.

After, it is a matter of priority.