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Default Amazing games consigned to the dustbin by lazy developers

March 8th, 2014, 01:01
Originally Posted by MinorityReport View Post
Should computer games be preserved, or should we treat them like disposable commodities?
Let's go back to your book analogy,.

If you have maintained your 2002 computer that originally played M:TW, then it should still work, correct?

If you have chosen to run it on an operating system that DID NOT EXIST when the product was made … well, then it is quite literally YOUR FAULT.

Here are two things your line of reasoning says:
- Every developer should make their games work on my Mac.
- Every developer must maintain their code so that if 10,000 years from now a descendent of mine pulls out the disk it will work.

The physical analogy is just stupid and useless. It is nonsense.

You cite TV / movies … but from this it is obvious that you are very young or lack memory. Because newer hardware / video formats DO NOT WORK with many TVs that were standard well after the Gold Box games were released.

But I don't know why I am bothering - you are ALWAYS 100% correct - even though in any thread I have dealt with you the reality is you are NOT. Like here.

You are a whiny spoilt, entitled little brat who expect others to provide free labor for him.

— Mike
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March 8th, 2014, 01:02
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Is this your way of admitting you were being completely unreasonable when you called developers lazy?

If yes, we can move on.
Exactly - he will NEVER admit to being wrong - even though he generally is. I'm sure he will pull out another useless quote from someone else demonstrating his correctness.

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March 8th, 2014, 01:54
The troll is strong in this one!
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March 8th, 2014, 03:06
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Let's go back to your book analogy,.

If you have maintained your 2002 computer that originally played M:TW, then it should still work, correct?

If you have chosen to run it on an operating system that DID NOT EXIST when the product was made … well, then it is quite literally YOUR FAULT.

Here are two things your line of reasoning says:
- Every developer should make their games work on my Mac.
- Every developer must maintain their code so that if 10,000 years from now a descendent of mine pulls out the disk it will work.

The physical analogy is just stupid and useless. It is nonsense.

You cite TV / movies … but from this it is obvious that you are very young or lack memory. Because newer hardware / video formats DO NOT WORK with many TVs that were standard well after the Gold Box games were released.

But I don't know why I am bothering - you are ALWAYS 100% correct - even though in any thread I have dealt with you the reality is you are NOT. Like here.

You are a whiny spoilt, entitled little brat who expect others to provide free labor for him.
1st off - you didn't go back to my book analogy.

2. My XP system died because the hard drive frazzled, completely irreparable.

3. When I purchased my new Windows system, the salesman did not inform me that many XP software systems would not work on it. While all PC games have 'specifications' on them, PC games are generally 'advertised on the box' as 'games for Windows'. As a consumer I did not want to buy a new Windows system which rendered my Windows software useless, but it appears planned 'obsolescence' has been 'forced' upon me. I am unaware of anyone who 'clamours' for new Windows operating systems, as far as I'm aware it's a 'forced' process. Why would it be 'my fault' if something has happened which is completely beyond my control?

4. I didn't mention Macs. If I bought a game which advertises itself as a 'game for Windows', no, I would not expect it to play on a Mac.

5. The concept that the developer has a part to play in the process is a valid one, but I don't and didn't expect it to be the only solution. If you actually read the first few replies to the thread you'll notice I'm open to engaging everyone involved in game production into the debate, from creator to consumer and all in between. I've tried to use 'we' and the concept of 'humanity' as much as possible. To be this deep into the thread and claim I have only one objective is the true absurdity and, most importantly, an outright lie.

6. You say the concept of game preservation is stupid, useless and nonsense. Which is fair enough if that's your opinion, but by having that opinion it doesn't actually make the concept stupid, useless and nonsense in anything other than your opinion because you haven't actually stated a reason why this is the case.

7. Yes, planned obsolescence has been used in the tv/film industry since the early 1990s as a means to continue wealth generation. I was outraged when Video players stopped being sold and I'll be outraged when dvd players stop being sold. It would be great if this wonderful thing called the internet would actually do what it's supposed to do and store and provide access to all this information for eternity, but, for some… reason… it seems all people want to do with the internet is supply me with an endless stream of spam and adverts…

8. It appears I've either hurt your feelings at some point or you seem to think I'm an 'easy target' for your vitriol, because apparently whenever you meet me in a thread 'i'm always right when I'm always wrong'. I believe the only other time I've seen you in a thread is when I was discussing the concept of 'trash mobs' in Icewind Dale with Kostas. You seemed to be deeply offended that someone dare suggest Icewind Dale didn't have that many trash mobs. I can think of more important things to 'lose one's rag about', but if that's all it takes for you, then, wow, I guess I'll be expecting mr. psycho on any thread I post from now on… as you clearly have a minuscule rational-coping trigger.

9. You say: "You are a whiny spoilt, entitled little brat who expect others to provide free labor for him." When I've already bought Medieval Total War 3 times now, have bought two brand new PCs. If you like deflection psychology so much, how about this statement: "The gaming industry is just a bunch of whiney spoilt, entitled little brats who expect others to keep paying out for exactly the same product every 5 years so that we can support their labour-free excessive lifestyles off of the back of genuine contributors to society" - but then, I wouldn't say that, because I have this thing called 'a rational brain' which can choose to isolate specific problems and separate them from horrific and utterly disgusting and downright vomit-worthy generalisations…
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March 8th, 2014, 03:45
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Sigh. Play nice.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the terms 'whining', 'entitled' and 'child-analogies' are the new textbook troll-memes.

An insertion of these phrases into any post on any topic is a guaranteed derailment and serves no purpose other than to attempt to 'rile' the 'opposing opinion' or 'entertainment subject' (whichever mood the troll feels is apt for the occasion).

It's quite a new concept and relates to the wider philosophical environment of 'politics' finding its way onto the internet and spreading like a cancer into other topics and, eventually, general meme.

It originated between people debating how best to spend government taxation. Anyone who proposes some form of social welfare can be pigeon-holed into the three basic catch-phrases of 'entitled', 'whining' and 'child-like' (child-like being non-self-supporting, or requiring the financial subsistence of others).

This method of simpleton antagonisation soon established itself as an easy way to thread-wreck and use passive-aggressive terminology without breaking basic forum rules as it can be subtly applied within sentences without appearing over-the-top to anyone except the engaged poster.

The implication of the phrases are actually the most severe personal insults its possible to present to someone. If you call someone an 'asshole', for example, it's just a basic insult, it has no greater implication than an expression of general disdain or matey camaraderie. However, 'whiney', 'child-like' and 'entitled' dig right into the deepest crevasses of a person's soul as they have inherent 'insidious' qualities.

Once the magic of these phrases had been discovered, they spread like wild-fire, breaking free of simple political debate and targeted use and now used to interject practically any thread on any subject, to the point where even the concept of 'discussion' itself is somehow a 'whiney, child-like' concept that is performed by 'entitled' people.

If you are not aware of it I suggest you research it, it's getting bigger by the day and the mods of no end of sites are woefully unprepared…
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March 8th, 2014, 05:05
MinorityReport, people seem to accept and agree with your assessment that games not working forever is unfortunate, but you haven't offered any suggestions about how to fix it. You can't just berate developers as lazy or overly-American and expect us to celebrate your supreme wisdom.

Before you can point any finger of blame at the video game industry, you need to understand that they didn't invent our monetary or societal systems. The reality is that people need to earn money to continue living. People at every stage of the video game industry need to spend time working on a new product to earn new money. If that wasn't the case, then maybe they could spend the rest of their lives fixing the first game that they made. God forbid they make a second game, because then they'd need to support two games for eternity.

Well, my wife needs some attention, otherwise I'd write more. Good luck with getting games to work forever.
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March 8th, 2014, 08:08
Originally Posted by MinorityReport View Post
3. When I purchased my new Windows system, the salesman did not inform me that many XP software systems would not work on it. While all PC games have 'specifications' on them, PC games are generally 'advertised on the box' as 'games for Windows'. As a consumer I did not want to buy a new Windows system which rendered my Windows software useless, but it appears planned 'obsolescence' has been 'forced' upon me. I am unaware of anyone who 'clamours' for new Windows operating systems, as far as I'm aware it's a 'forced' process. Why would it be 'my fault' if something has happened which is completely beyond my control?
Any computer I build/repair/ressurect runs whatever operating system I want it to within technological limitations (Many of which there simply is no realistic work around). Sometimes this requires some creative part sourcing in the case of older OS's, but that's just how the game works.

I've talked to people in the car world about wanting 300+ hp out of a ford flat head v8 (an engine model primarily used during the second quarter of the 20th century) . Physically possible? Yep. Gonna happen in your car? Nope.

You seem to be happy to ignore the entire underlying situation that creates the phenomenon that you rail against. Honestly I think you just get your jollies off in putting things down and arguing on the internet. And that's fine. Sometimes I do to. But at least I'm willing to admit it.
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March 9th, 2014, 14:30
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
If you want to spend your time reprogramming old games, no one is going to stop you. Who should pay though? The government? Great use of taxes there.

As much as I love gaming, I don't think that the sense of 'humanity' is impacted by some old games not being playable.
"If you want to spend your time reprogramming old business software, no one is going to stop you. Who should pay though? There are a lot of busioness firms ready to pay you."

Problem is, that games no, business software yes. Microsoft claimed several times (if I remember correctly) that their Windows 7 "Windows XP Mode" was NEVER meant to be for games - ONLY for business software.

Another point is that in busioness software some companies DO NOT WANT you to use an older software version - they just change the data model used in new versions so that these are incompatible with older versions. On purpose.

And this is called Planned Obsolescence

Programmed obsolescence

In some cases, notification may be combined with the deliberate disabling of a product to prevent it from working, thus requiring the buyer to purchase a replacement. Example: inkjet printer manufacturers who employ smart chips in their ink cartridges to prevent them from being used after a certain threshold (number of pages, time, etc.), even though the cartridge may still contain usable ink or could be refilled. This constitutes programmed obsolescence, in that there is no random component to the decline in function.
We live nowadays in a world where home devices are built so that they should go out of order within let's say 10 years - and with this, the firms keep the wheel of business on going by forcing you to buy new models of the same home device. An manufacturer went out of business ? Bad luck. Just choose another one, a new one.

Games are not playable anymore ? Okay, then go out and buy yourself a new one. By this, you put money into the business again. The wheel of business keeps on going …

At least there are Repair Cafés out there now …

Would be nice if Repair Cafés existed for hardware and for software as well … In Germnan law you actually own the software you buy (no matter what companies want to make you blieve) which means that you are allowed to apply minor fixes on your own … But nobody does that, because so few people are programmers …


Originally Posted by Korplem View Post
MinorityReport, people seem to accept and agree with your assessment that games not working forever is unfortunate, but you haven't offered any suggestions about how to fix it.
GOG is one solution to fix it. I honestly thank God for GOG being around at all.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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March 9th, 2014, 15:53
Originally Posted by MinorityReport View Post
I did read everything you wrote, I'm not just grabbing at weak spots for the sake of argument, but I feel this sentence sums up pretty much everything you've said. Everything you say about what 'we' should do about 'planned obsolescence' revolves around your view in this quoted sentence.





If I wrote:





"Technology changes and the people that created content have an obligation to make sure it works with newer techonology."





Because, for whatever reason, I had the law making power to do so, would my sentence be any more or less 'the right thing to do' than yours?





its not about the 'right' thing to do, its about economic reality.

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March 9th, 2014, 15:58
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
"If you want to spend your time reprogramming old business software, no one is going to stop you. Who should pay though? There are a lot of busioness firms ready to pay you."

Problem is, that games no, business software yes. Microsoft claimed several times (if I remember correctly) that their Windows 7 "Windows XP Mode" was NEVER meant to be for games - ONLY for business software.

Another point is that in busioness software some companies DO NOT WANT you to use an older software version - they just change the data model used in new versions so that these are incompatible with older versions. On purpose.

And this is called Planned Obsolescence



We live nowadays in a world where home devices are built so that they should go out of order within let's say 10 years - and with this, the firms keep the wheel of business on going by forcing you to buy new models of the same home device. An manufacturer went out of business ? Bad luck. Just choose another one, a new one.

Games are not playable anymore ? Okay, then go out and buy yourself a new one. By this, you put money into the business again. The wheel of business keeps on going …

At least there are Repair Cafés out there now …

Would be nice if Repair Cafés existed for hardware and for software as well … In Germnan law you actually own the software you buy (no matter what companies want to make you blieve) which means that you are allowed to apply minor fixes on your own … But nobody does that, because so few people are programmers …




GOG is one solution to fix it. I honestly thank God for GOG being around at all.





I don't think it is planned obsolescence in games, its just the reality that as technology changes old things don't always work

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