Divine Divinity - Available at Good Old Games

txa1265 said:

Relayer, however, both with Arx and now Divinity has presented a stance that he is being screwed by the developers.

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I was never as aggressive in my comments as to imply being SCREWED. You're putting sentiments in my mouth.

txa1265 said:

I understand the standpoint - any fix that is made available in any form should be made available universally. I agree - and by that token Win7 should be free to compensate for many of us who bought the worst OS release in modern history.

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Win7 is a brand new product - poor comparison there (in addition to me not having asked for a patch for DD as any type of "compensation"). You're also talking about thousands of man-hours of work vs. what? A a couple hundred, maybe?

txa1265 said:

But for a game that is *8 YEARS OLD* and wasn't a huge seller to begin with, where does the money come from? This re-release certainly took resources, and they are recouping that through the $5 price - of which they only get ~70% at best due to publisher and distribution takes.

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So this is how we now support game companies? By buying their titles twice?
I never said I didn't support the re-release. I've said it in every post: it was a great idea, this makes the game available to a larger audience. With many gamers now buying titles from Good Old Games, many who never considered this game will probably download it, the price is definitely right. THIS IS GOOD, I'm not disputing it.

But I already have this game so why couldn't they just offer me (us) a patch? If it
had some new additional content then I'd probably buy it. But it doesn't. It's just a few fixes.

txa1265 said:

If you object - don't buy it. Divine Divinity is one of the best games of the decade, IMO, and if you can't manage $5 to support these guys, then … well, I already mentioned what I thought about that.

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I can manage $5, my commute to work each day in NYC is more and it's a hell of a lot less entertaining than DD.

I'm not disputing the price of a RE-RELEASE. I think $5 or $6 is quite a bargain. They could have charged $10 and I think it's still a fair price for an excellent game.

I will happily recommend it to anyone remotely interested in RPGs (and I have - but I guess that's not me supporting Larian, right?).

But I think most will agree with me that those few fixes could have been a patch in addition to a re-release. Heck, for those of us who have no trouble running the game currently, the fixes to the skills, free of charge, would have been very welcome.

txa1265 said:

I don't see it as obvious … what I see as *more* obvious is that many here, especially those who bought the game for really cheap in the last couple of years, are showing their unwillingness to support RPG developers.

That's fine, just realize that you are a part of the problem.

Why don't you just go pirate it since the developers have committed such an unjust screwing against you personally?

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Why the aggression? I never said or thought I was being screwed, I don't know why you've assumed that.

But you're making a lot of assumptions, aren't you?

Let's see:

1) I don't support RPG developers (I'm PART OF THE PROBLEM!) because...
2) I'm bitter because I feel I'm being screwed (and PERSONALLY at that!)
3) I pirate software (because of points 1 & 2)

Way to promote healthy discussion on your own site.

This IS discussion … I just strongly disagree

Also - I need to apologize, Relayer: I thought it was you who had said stuff about Arx before, which shaped my statements. I was wrong and I apologize.

Also one thing to keep in mind, since this update seems to be for GoG only as far as I can tell. Wouldn't it be possible that GoG paid a certain fee in a way or another to get the game on their roster and get the updates done. If that is the case as it seems to be, then Larian probably isn't free to release the update as they please. Would make sense on GoG's part to ask for the patch not to be released.

I don't have any numbers nor studies proving this But I'd be willing to bet that a very large number of sales (possibly even the majority heh) made on GoG go to people that already own or owned whichever game they're purchasing. So if they'd allow the patch to be available right then they'd probably be hurting their sales.

Galaad said:

Also one thing to keep in mind, since this update seems to be for GoG only as far as I can tell. Wouldn't it be possible that GoG paid a certain fee in a way or another to get the game on their roster and get the updates done. If that is the case as it seems to be, then Larian probably isn't free to release the update as they please. Would make sense on GoG's part to ask for the patch not to be released.

I don't have any numbers nor studies proving this But I'd be willing to bet that a very large number of sales (possibly even the majority heh) made on GoG go to people that already own or owned whichever game they're purchasing. So if they'd allow the patch to be available right then they'd probably be hurting their sales.

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You're not making sense.

Larian wasn't forced to develop something for their old game, and they were fully capable of negotiating a deal with the help of conscious thought.

Whether the game is old or not, the principle stands - it's wrong to hold back fixes for a game you've developed.

Since they seem to be planning a patch, then the point is moot. They're not doing what I'm accusing them of doing, so all is well.

I think GOG developed this fix precisely to make their version better from the ones you could buy elsewhere. There's no reason we should expect they just give the fix to non-customers. If these are just "minor fixes", and so not worth $5, then get over it and play the original version. If they're things of bigger importance to your DivDIv experience, then pay the people who made them $5. What's the big deal?

It's nice when people release stuff for free, but no one has any obligation to do so.

Elwro said:

I think GOG developed this fix precisely to make their version better from the ones you could buy elsewhere. There's no reason we should expect they just give the fix to non-customers. If these are just "minor fixes", and so not worth $5, then get over it and play the original version. If they're things of bigger importance to your DivDIv experience, then pay the people who made them $5. What's the big deal?

It's nice when people release stuff for free, but no one has any obligation to do so.

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It's not about an obligation, it's about proper behavior.

What? Why do you think non-GOG-customers are suddenly entitled to this patch? If GOG funded the patch, that what you call "proper behavior" is releasing your products free of charge because some members of the public want them. How on Earth is this reasonable, or "proper" from any point of view different from the one of the people who would get some stuff for free that other people pay for?

Elwro said:

What? Why do you think non-GOG-customers are suddenly entitled to this patch? If GOG funded the patch, that what you call "proper behavior" is releasing your products free of charge because some members of the public want them. How on Earth is this reasonable, or "proper" from any point of view different from the one of the people who would get some stuff for free that other people pay for?

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If your product is broken or not working as intended, I think it's proper behavior to provide these fixes to those who've paid for the product in question.

Larian is apparently planning to release these fixes in a patch, so it's all good.

If you read the entire thread, you'll discover that I'm talking about the fixes - not the "upgrades".

Thrasher said:

I will have my DD CDs around forever. I huge download on my PC? Not so sure about that.

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Personally, I agree.

DArtagnan said:

Larian is apparently planning to release these fixes in a patch, so it's all good.

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Huh ? I didn't take that from the quote I put in here earlier at all.

Edit : By the way, I just can't believe people are argueing over an amount less than 10 Euros.

I mean - if you are NOT WILLING to pay 6 Euros or Dollar ... THEN you must be in REAL financial trouble !

You would pay about the same price for Divinity on ANY flea market I know ! Okay, meybe a few Euros less, but then, how much money is this ?

Ah, my mistake.

Overlooked the word "don't"

Well, it's back to pointless greed.

Alrik, you don't seem to be able to grasp that it's the principle of the thing.

I don't care if it's 1 cent.

I already paid for it, anyway, so it's not about what I would or wouldn't do. It's about what I think is the right thing to do.

Whether you agree or not, isn't going to change my mind.

txa1265 said:

This IS discussion … I just strongly disagree

Also - I need to apologize, Relayer: I thought it was you who had said stuff about Arx before, which shaped my statements. I was wrong and I apologize.

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Honestly, I was wondering, "what the heck is he talking about?" regarding Arx but my memory has been so bad lately (lack of sleep) I couldn't actually remember if I had or hadn't commented on Arx, lol.

Apology accepted. And you're absolutely right, Larian should have made this available as a free patch as well.

DArtagnan said:

Alrik, you don't seem to be able to grasp that it's the principle of the thing.

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I do know what you mean - it's just that I don't care that much.

A game for 6 Eiuros ? Dollars ? whatever it was is MORE than cheap ! I just would like to believe that people would look over that for such a small price ...

I would like to have that "patch" as well, but I don't have much urge to play Divinity again. Maybe that's thanks to my photographic memory.

So I just don't bother that much. I can wait, if I must.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

I do know what you mean - it's just that I don't care that much.

A game for 6 Eiuros ? Dollars ? whatever it was is MORE than cheap ! I just would like to believe that people would look over that for such a small price …

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…

Those two paragraphs together demonstrates that you don't understand what a principle is, in this case.

Money is no object, and I don't lack the money.

I also don't care.

I'm stating my opinion based on my perception of what's right and wrong.

It's like stating an opinion about some random law being passed, and it doesn't mean anyone cares. The opinion stands regardless.

I still think it is mixed - there are both new features and fixes being added. And tell me, what 'new rev' of a product EVER hasn't done that? Yet we accept that after a certain period of bug fixes a new version will come along that we pay some amount for (again, I go back to the oft-stated fact that Win7 is largely a 'Vista shoulda been')

New products these days have 30 - 90 day warranty in general, sometimes up to a year. 8 years is beyond the scope of anyone.

You call it 'greed', I call it recouping the expense of running a business ... and there is a big difference.