Favourite shooter/RPG?

CraigCWB said:

lol. Dude, I've been around a long time. I was arguing against the stupid mistakes of the game companies BEFORE they made them. I may not be "right", but the evidence in front of your face if you look at the current state of affairs in the RPG genre or in the PC game industry in general is pretty solid evidence I'm not wrong.

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Really? The evidence in front of my face says that Warren Spector is responsible for the present state of crpgs?

Well I'm glad you have it all figured out. Good luck with that…

Oh wow, I had forgotten NOLF 2's RPG like elements! Though, if that counts, then Batman AA counts, too.

Comparing Mass Effect to Dues Ex is just plain hard. I played ME2 a couple of months ago. I played Dues Ex a decade ago. I can only remember bits of DE - and some of those bits might have been from Dues Ex 2.

I am not a fan of Deus Ex but it is much more of an rpg then Mass Effect is and is much better. The quests and story are much better and putting experience into stats has a much bigger impact on gameplay then the leveling system in Mass Effect has. (which is very little) In Deus Ex you had choices on how you do things but in Mass Effect you have none. Also Mass Effect has the worst dialog system I have ever encountered.

PS. Diablo had the most impact on destroying the rpg genre out of anything that has ever came out. Since Diablo was so popular most companies wanted to change the rpg genre into a simplistic hack & slash. Also since the online component was so popular people got it in there mind to make an online game like Diablo so that they could charge a monthly fee. I think that if Diablo didn't exist or didn't sell so well the rpg genre would be in a much better state today. (especially if Diablo failed to sell well)

Personally I think Deus Ex still hasn't been surpassed with regards to the combination of player and character skill and the variety of choices in dealing with each situation/level. That you could generally play it with a very deliberate pacing really helped that tactical aspect.

Loved (and loathed - especially while playing in the dark) System Shock 2! Have been trying to get it to run on newer computers without much success...
On the other hand, NOLF (1+2) was a superb game as well, more shooter/puzzler than RPG but a great game nonetheless.

Having to chose between Deus Ex 1 and System Shock 2 wasn't easy, but I picked the latter in the end.

I just prefer its creepy sci-fi setting.

I've only really played Mass Effect, played bloodlines too but barely used guns at all. Except for the zombie bit and that I was rubbish at and got really annoyed by.

Why would anyone expect "RPG" from Deus Ex?

That would mean you had no idea what it was about, and it was never intended as a true RPG - at least not from what I recall from the interviews.

It was very much a game that was supposed to carry forward the relatively new concept of "emergent gameplay" - and I remember interviews with Spector about stuff like guards hearing little things drop to the ground and react to a completely player created scenario.

That was really the core of the game, and to expect a deep-ish traditional RPG from that, is to be ignorant of the game in terms of previews.

I'm about as hardcore/enthusiastic as you can get, after 27 years of gaming being my passion - and I definitely see Deus Ex as a clear evolutionary step forward for several kinds of games.

But as an RPG? No, not really - but it was never meant to be one.

Anyway, if you really want to blame Deus Ex - then go for the sequel.

Deus Ex.

Lots of great games on that list, but (as other has written before me) Deus Ex is a game I replay and, more importantly, re-enjoy again and again. That game is close to perfect

Personally I just put'em in the same boat, though the first person view of DE certainly makes it seem more "FPS" than ME does. It's all the same to me - both have RPG elements and all that, but neither one is what I'd call a cRPG.

Like I stated in the actual poll though: I do prefer ME over DE overall.

Edit: Have to agree with Craig on the general consensus around here though. I would've expected more people to simply avoid any games that were "shooter/RPG" because they're so far from the games we usually discuss (infinity engine etc).

GhanBuriGhan said:

Personally I think Deus Ex still hasn't been surpassed with regards to the combination of player and character skill and the variety of choices in dealing with each situation/level. That you could generally play it with a very deliberate pacing really helped that tactical aspect.

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Well said.
Those are exactly the reasons why Deus Ex is my favourite shooter RPG.
My overall favourite game of the bunch is Bloodlines (Deus Ex and System Shock 2 being close second, Mass Effect 2 third), but it´s mostly for its other rpg elements, characters and atmosphere, not because it´s a great shooter RPG.

Not completely related but Deus Ex + Deus Ex : IW are on sale on Steam for 5 bucks.
Couldn't really avoid buying them this time, could I?

I'm puzzled why so many people are voting for Bloodlines - it's one of my favorite games, but had crappy shooter mechanics.

For me the perfect shooter/RPGs were System Shock 2 and Stalker because both were uncompromisingly good shooters and had well weaved RPG features (that mattered).

Also of course the amazing Deus Ex, but I don't consider it as good shooter as the above two hence I didn't vote for it.

I am biased of course to the shooter-ish side - having played lots of them I just can't stand when they decide to implement half-assed shooter features in my RPGs. (I'm looking at you, Mass Effect)

wolfing said:

If having 'paths' is a requirement for you to name something an RPG then I guess almost no jRPGs should be named RPGs

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Compare Final Fantasy VII with a game like Silver and the former can almost be called "free-roaming" in comparison.

There's a difference between following a path physically and following an abstract path. In Gothic 3 you follow an abstract path in that you have certain goals to chase and no matter the order you do things one can still say you follow a certain path.

What I meant with "path" in NOLF though is when you physically have to follow a path and you can never go offroad. Except for games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Operation Flashpoint, FPS's tend to be a linear experience with a physical wall on each side of you and an invisible red line on the ground which you need to follow to make progress, normally that leads up to the next predesigned encounter.

All of the FF games I have played have had an opportunity to go off-path and do sidequest and exploration, often with bonus quests, bonus content and magic items as a reward for doing so. Even if your character is preset from start you still often get a choice (drink) in what order to do things, if you are going to bother about something or not, or how to finish a quest.

In games like NOLF2 and Diablo you can pump experience and points, but all that does is to empower your character. You never have any real choice in where to go.

System Shock 2 an uncompromisingly good shooter?

Let's not go that far

Only Bloodlines comes close to DeusEx when it comes to being the ultimate shooter/RPG. Everything else on the list is a joke. DeusEx will never be surpassed in awesomeness, definitely not by the upcoming prequel (the moronic trailer wasn't convincing, maybe for Final Fantasy fans..).

Also, System Shock 2 has to be one of the most overrated piece of low poly garbage I have ever played.. not once but twice (played once when it was released, played again after all the hype thinking maybe I missed something grand and eternal in that game.. yeah right).

DArtagnan said:

System Shock 2 an uncompromisingly good shooter?

Let's not go that far

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Compared to Deus Ex it is. I played it immediately after SS2 and remeber how wooden the shooting elements felt at first, compared to SS2's faster twitchy mechanics. Of course later it finally dawned to me you could do virtually anything in DE and that's why I love it so much.

But yeah, Stalker and System Shock 2 are the only two games I've played so far blending the shooter and rpg mechanics so seemlessly.

Maybe Borderlands is like that too, bu t I haven't played it yet because it seems a bit mindless.

p.s. NOLF 1&2 were awesome, but I wouldn't call the 2nd a shooter/rpg, more like well-implemented leveling up elements. Man, I need to replay those!

Wow, lots of different opinions in this thread. My 2 cents:

First of all, it should be clear that although all of those games could be called shooter/RPGs, they are very different from each other.

1. In terms of gameplay System Shock 2, Deus Ex and Bloodlines are still unique and unsurpassed, and my favorites in that order (Bloodlines being the best). Each felt like an iteration in the right direction to me. All of them offer distinct paths through the game, e.g. brute-force, hacking, sneaking or talking, as well as interesting and meaningful skill systems and upgrade options. None of the other listed games offered that.

2. Stalker is a free-roaming, atmospheric shooter with lots of quests and some other RPG mechanics that I don't remember too well.

3. Mass Effect 1+2 are dialog-based action adventure shooters with basic RPG elements. Due to their incredible, interactive cinematic presentation, particularly in case of ME2, some even consider them to be RPGs ...

4. Fallout 3, Borderlands and Boiling Point I didn't play, so I can't comment.

5. I think I played No One Lives Forever 2 once, but from what I remember, even though it did have a skill system like the one shown in JemyM's screenshot, it didn't come close to Deus Ex (which I would compare it to) because it was very linear. No using your environment (hacking), sneaking past an entire section of the map or talking your way out of things. I could be wrong though. Still, I'm fine with it not being listed.

6. Bioshock was a straight, if very atmospheric shooter. No RPG elements whatsoever, as far as I'm concerned. Like Doom 3 with a few more upgrades, nothing noteworthy though. A great game in its own right, but I'm happy it wasn't included in this poll.


So yeah, my vote went to Bloodlines for reasons written above. Perfect gameplay options. I so wish there'd be more games like the ones mentioned in 1.

Boiling Point is a shooter rpg which could have been absolutely awesome if it was finished. White Gold: War in Paradise is a still unreleased spiritual sequel that attempts to do things right.

sfury said:

Compared to Deus Ex it is. I played it immediately after SS2 and remeber how wooden the shooting elements felt at first, compared to SS2's faster twitchy mechanics. Of course later it finally dawned to me you could do virtually anything in DE and that's why I love it so much.

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I agree that the feel in SS2 is superior to DE.

But I don't consider either one a good shooter.

Borderlands isn't a particularly good shooter either, but it's OK.

Stalker, however, is a truly excellent shooter - but I don't consider it much of an RPG, really. Then again, I'm sort of a stat-freak.