The Elder Scrolls Online - New Screens

TheMadGamer said:

I was a big fan of UO, EQ1, EQ2, and WoW. Played MMOs for a good ten years. The thrill of MMOs in the early days, for me, was pretty simple - the idea that I was playing in the same game world as thousands of other real players was cat nip. It was a huge step up in terms of numbers of people and game complexity compared to ipx sessions playing Doom 2 with a buddy.

But honeymoons end and the reality sets in that MMOs are pretty much a treadmill at the 'end game.' Movies end. Books End. Single player games End. Most everything has an end. Figuring out how to create a game that goes on and on without it devolving into a treadmill situation is going to be a tough puzzle to solve.

I am so very tired of the treadmill and I actually regret the many days of my finite life I dumped into that treadmill all in the name of 'being in the same game world as thousands of other players' repeating things ad-nauseam just to get the next modestly better piece of virtual gear.

That said, TES Online does look pretty and has some decent sounding gameplay mechanics. There are always new players who haven't dumped years of their life into the treadmill and are willing to do it. So best of luck to all involved. But I'm a dedicated single player gamer these days. I like games where I can save at any time and games that actually have a story that ends.

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I need this as my signature as it wraps up a lot of how I feel after playing MMO's since EQ1. I don't have much to add beyond the fact that when I play an MMO these days it is with the expectation I play for 3-9 months to see the content and do some quests and enjoy any company I may pick up along the way.

I lack the time, patience, and extroverted personality to be able to do any type of end-game or dungeon content where you need good gear and desire to hunt with strangers on a regular basis. Consequently I have access to more limited content.

Still there is fun to be had. I got what I felt was my money's worth out of GW2, TSW, RIFT, and SW:TOR … to name recent games I played … before moving on.

At this point I have more hours played in many SRPG's then I do current MMO's.

QUICK EDIT: As a counter point I have a very socially focused friend who plays many MMO's and doesn't really care what the game is - he plays where his friends play. For him the appeal is chatting, team work, and having a fun online hang-out. He prefers MMO's far more than SRPGs where he feels lonely playing. He likes the shared experience. I also have an introverted friend who plays them to be social behind the mask of his character. Anyhow there are a variety of reasons people can deal with some of the negative aspects of an MMO as there are also some perks. For me the main draw of a game is the game itself. If the game isn't good I have no desire to play. In general the perks of an SRPG tend to outweigh those of an MMO, especially since my play style is super casual and somewhat lore friendly which makes finding people to play with very difficult in an MMO where I find everyone to be to serious about being/having the best.

Fluent said:

I don't understand the hate for MMOs either. So other people are playing with you. So what? You can pretty much solo these games if you want to. And the content is often just as great as a single player game. Then you add in the huge amount of customization options and the size of the game world, and you can make a case that MMORPGs are even better than single player games.

Skyrim is great but there's more quests in one zone of Lord of the Rings Online then there is in the entirety of Skyrim.

And micro-transaction hate is another thing I don't understand. Those options exist for people who want to spend real money on the game. Don't want to spend money? Then don't!! No one is twisting your arm to use the cash shop.

Some of the stuff I read on this site is ridiculous.

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Hardly hate - but I have a job and a family and I can't really schedule a regular play session to meet up with friends. I can boot up Bioshock Infinite right after I post this message and not have to worry at all about who's on line. And while a lot of MMO have single player content, I really doubt the story content for single players on an MMO has an real substance.

And speaking of friends, my off-line friends have a variety of interests and most are not gamers and the few that are are either FPS (Call of duty etc) or Sports sims. You guys would not believe how frustrated I was when I found out my daughters college roommate turned out to be a Skyrim Fanatic like me. It was so very very hard to only say "Oh, Skyrm is cool" and leave it at that rather than gush about play dynamics for a hour or so and have my daughter mad at me for the rest of the semester.

elikal said:

I say it looks good. But all can be made to look better, if you just make screenshots the right way. I am skeptical with the Hero Engine, esp. after one of the SWTOR devs revealed MOST of the many million dollars of SWTOR went into the crappy Engine.

If SWTOR is by any means representative of the Hero Engine I remain skeptical. They don't have much of a distance drawing nor any really populated towns or cities. Maybe it's the engine, maybe just Bioware's inability. Who knows. So yes it does look good, but these days I am harder to convince. I want to see ingame HD vids, or ideally I want to see it myself.

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They aren't using Hero engine. It was just licenced originally to test out various aspects of gameplay before they developed their own engine. MMOs need to ensure that 100s of separate players can be onscreen at the same time without lag (See Andrews updates on the Camelot unchained KS for more on this) so that does restrict their graphics somewhat over single player games like Skyrim. Still, reckon they are doing a pretty good job judging from what they have shown so far.

Santos said:

Exactly. It's mostly all the children running around, dancing on posts, and hopping, always hopping, everywhere they go (complete with cosmetic pets, following them step for step) that REALLY pulls me out of the experience.

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I tried KOTOR F2P thinking great it has a nice solo content. Ten minutes into the game it's ruined by a hundred players jumping around and getting in the way of your quests. So I agree with you 100%.

Couchpotato said:

I tried KOTOR F2P thinking great it has a nice solo content. Ten minutes into the game it's ruined by a hundred players jumping around and getting in the way of your quests. So I agree with you 100%.

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That's interesting. There was a recent episode of "Grim", where there was this game developer who invented an online gaming code that had no limitations on the number of players on a server. Based on what you guys are saying, maybe having a ton of players in the game is not a good thing.

Dajjer said:

That's interesting. There was a recent episode of "Grim", where there was this game developer who invented an online gaming code that had no limitations on the number of players on a server. Based on what you guys are saying, maybe having a ton of players in the game is not a good thing.

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Actually it is a good thing to have all players on the same "server" - just not all in the same *instance*. The problem with dedicated servers is that you get a huge initial rush at launch, when the servers are all over crowded, but later when the levelling wave has passed through the early areas become empty.

TESO has a solution to this problem, which they call the megaserver. Essentially, there is only one pool of players, but they match you up with other players, in a single instance, according to various criteria, such as whether you prefer solo play, whether the other players are on your friends list etc. It sounds like a good idea, but how well it will work is any one's guess.

Dajjer said:

And while a lot of MMO have single player content, I really doubt the story content for single players on an MMO has an real substance.

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MMORPGs have single player gameplay as their backbone.

If they had MU player gameplay as their backbone, it would be worth considering playing them.

The additional content is things that work on peer pressure, mimetism, rats' race etc and would have no meaning in an offline game.

Dajjer said:

That's interesting. There was a recent episode of "Grim", where there was this game developer who invented an online gaming code that had no limitations on the number of players on a server. Based on what you guys are saying, maybe having a ton of players in the game is not a good thing.

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Guild Wars had the formula right. Evey quest was done by yourself or party. You didn't see another player except in the city's and other hubs.

Well I'm off to do some solo quests in Mirkwood. I'll try to fathom why its fun when everyone says its not.

I thought we don't follow MMOs.

Gorath said:

I thought we don't follow MMOs.

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Don't worry I wont be posting that much MMO news. I've played a few, but I know most don't come here for MMO's news. I'm not a huge fan myself.

Dajjer said:

And while a lot of MMO have single player content, I really doubt the story content for single players on an MMO has an real substance.

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Have you even played one? Try LOTRO and get back to me. The story in that game is outstanding.

And I love Skyrim and Elder Scrolls, but they got nothing on an MMO like LOTRO. There's more quests in one zone of LOTRO then there is in the entirety of Skyrim. Not to mention the vast, diverse landscapes in the many unique zones. And the size of the world is bigger than any single player RPG can dream of.

Point is, single player games are great, but MMOs take things to a whole different level. The social aspects are really just the cherry on top.

And as for Guild Wars 2, not seeing other people in game is not a good thing, in my opinion. I want to see other adventurers so the world doesn't feel empty. It's always nice to occasionally strike up a chat with someone way out in the middle of nowhere, or get them to help you with a quest or something.

*watches in amusement as Fluent stand brazenly far out on that limb*.

ToddMcF2002 said:

*watches in amusement as Fluent stand brazenly far out on that limb*.

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He is just being his usual self. That is fine we all have our opinions. It's good to have multiple views on topics.

Fluent said:

Have you even played one? Try LOTRO and get back to me. The story in that game is outstanding.

And I love Skyrim and Elder Scrolls, but they got nothing on an MMO like LOTRO. There's more quests in one zone of LOTRO then there is in the entirety of Skyrim. Not to mention the vast, diverse landscapes in the many unique zones. And the size of the world is bigger than any single player RPG can dream of.

Point is, single player games are great, but MMOs take things to a whole different level. The social aspects are really just the cherry on top.

And as for Guild Wars 2, not seeing other people in game is not a good thing, in my opinion. I want to see other adventurers so the world doesn't feel empty. It's always nice to occasionally strike up a chat with someone way out in the middle of nowhere, or get them to help you with a quest or something.

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True. The only things missing from Ultima VII were huge inconsequential areas, endless grinding, player killing, lag, subscription fees, microtransactions and real conversations with the depth of facebook statuses.

That was a bit too easy. Now I'm feeling dirty.

I would feel dirty too if I made an ignorant post like that. Sheesh.

It's not that he is wrong, but there is an implied trade off of quest complexity and immersion for the social option. Because any one player cannot alter the game world MMO's must fake it with private instances but eventually you rejoin the public world and see that things are as they were. For example - say i had a quest for defending a small town from an Orc invasion. Although I'd love to see the reactions of other players as 50 Orcs came pouring into town while they are wistfuly crafting, chatting and vending we all know it can't be designed that way.

On the other hand arguing that MMO's are teh suxxors because you're too cheap to pay into a game system that offers *thousands* of hours of evolving content is a pretty poor one.

Fluent said:

I would feel dirty too if I made an ignorant post like that. Sheesh.

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it was you who claimed that the attributes of MMO's are like icing on a cake that's missing from single player games.

The social aspect enhances the game. It's not just about chatting to a friend or to a random stranger, it's the introduction of a real economy into the game, that evolves and changes. It's the introduction of fellowship opportunities that make you feel as though you really are are an adventurer putting together a fellowship of adventurers to tackle some tough task. Those things in my opinion, enhance the game rather than hinder it.

But like I said, single player games are great, but I think MMOs are fine too. There's no reason to hate on one or the other. Just enjoy the games for what they are.

And I feel just as much immersion in LOTRO as I did in Skyrim, or Morrowind, or any of those games. Seeing real people running around is not hurting anything.