fatBastard()
Hello, I'm a Zombaholic
... and still you couldn't help but ridicule the other "camp" by using bad spelling when writing their comment.
I would say that illustrates very nicely that you ARE indeed acting like a PC elitist.
Square Enix - DX: HR and Dungeon Siege 3 Sales Figures
- Thread starter Dhruin
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I would say that illustrates very nicely that you ARE indeed acting like a PC elitist.
Thaurin
SasqWatch
You mean to say that a mouse and keyboard isn't only one range of specific games?
I would argue that QTE was never console-only, but whatever.
So this is why people feel the need to insult the entire console playing population whenever a game they feel should have been mainly designed for PC gets released? I mean, things go both ways. I paraphrase an ancient philosopher, "The easiest way to settle any dispute is for one party to walk away."
If that doesn't satisfy you, maybe start an online petition for more PC-oriented games?
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DArtagnan
Guest
He's saying that requiring a hardware peripheral to enjoy the game isn't reasonable.
Every single PC owner in the world has access to mouse and keyboard. That's why PC games should ensure full functionality for that, before anything else. The developers need to make that effort. Seeing as how they reap the rewards of multi-platform releases, it's not unreasonable of the consumer to expect them to make adjustments for the platform specific standards.
Obviously, Obsidian designed the game around consoles - and we all know that to be the case.
If you don't have a problem with that, that's one thing - but let's not be in denial and say that it's not a reasonable complaint for people who don't own a controller and who prefer PC games to function best with the PC norm.
I don't agree. You don't see flight sims, racing games or beat em ups designing a great mouse and keyboard experience, and it's now established that action games (devil may cry 4 etc) are better played on gamepad and so it's fairly expected that players who like those kind of games will already own the cheap accessory that enables the best experience on them.
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DArtagnan
Guest
The key difference is about an established precedent.
Flight sims and racing games have always played better with certain controllers - for supremely obvious reasons. They're SIMULATING something specific, and we all know about it.
Devil May Cry is a console game with very similar issues to DS3. Developers didn't care to implement proper controls for PC.
We all know that Dungeon Siege was always a PC franchise, and we all know that there was absolutely no reasonable way to know that you'd need a gamepad for the proper experience.
It was an unreasonable requirement, and saying different is sheer denial based on an agenda of some kind.
No, I meant to say what I wrote. Please read again. ProTip: mouse and keyboard are control devices, not ranges of specific games.
Ok, argue. Here's a snippet from wiki: "Die Hard Arcade (Sega, 1996) and most notably Shenmue (Sega, 1999) for the Dreamcast introduced QTEs in the modern form of cut scene interludes in an otherwise more interactive game.[5] Shenmue's director Yu Suzuki is credited with coining the phase "Quick Time Event".[5] Since this period, several other games on modern console and game systems have included QTEs or similar mechanics. Another early use of QTEs was in the action game Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage (Yuke's, 1999), where different non-linear paths were revealed depending on whether the player succeeds or fails in pressing the displayed button quickly enough during a QTE, allowing different ways to complete the game"
Console games have always been cutscene heavy. In order to actually make a game out of that they introduced QTE. The first PC games that used QTE were console ports - somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Yup, the easiest and least successful way. Another one is closing your eyes and humming your favorite tune. The BEST way to settle a dispute is actually having a dispute. I really see nothing wrong with that.
About the insult, sorry, couldn't resist.
I think I'll keep on bitching for now and voting with my money, but thanks for the advice.If that doesn't satisfy you, maybe start an online petition for more PC-oriented games?
Street Fighter IV is simulating what exactly? It's a style of game that suits gamepad over keyboard and mouse. Same as other styles of game like Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia etc. once they hit 3d. Any gamer interested in playing those kind of games should own a cheap gamepad. DS3 is also a direct control action game, like it or not. It's significantly different from it's predecessors in that respect. But there's no law against that.
Mouse and keyboard suits many genres, but it's a sad and isolated world if you think PC games should be restricted to those genres alone.
Mouse and keyboard suits many genres, but it's a sad and isolated world if you think PC games should be restricted to those genres alone.
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Just as a throw-in : current UK sales charts (taken from German gaming mag site "Gamestar") :
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DArtagnan
Guest
Who is talking about laws? We're talking about precedents and fair notice. Dungeon Siege 3 wasn't marketed as a game that you should use a gamepad for. No Dungeon Siege before it has done that - and it's not at all something you can expect from a hack/slash game like this.
You can try to split hairs and argue that other games support gamepad as the primary control device, but you can't argue your way out of what's reasonable to expect. Naturally, you don't have to acknowledge it either - and it's not required.
You don't seem to get the essence of what's being said.
No one is saying games shouldn't support other devices, and no one is saying PC games can't play better with a gamepad. We're saying it's pretty unprecedented for the genre - and certainly the franchise. That's why it should either have been made CRYSTAL clear through marketing or the requirements on the box, or they should simply have spent more than 5 minutes on the mouse/keyboard controls.
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Maybe the thing than is, that one should distinguish between "designed for console" and "designed for gamepad"? Although I don't own one, I could easily accept that certain games are optimized for gamepads even on PC's.
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DArtagnan
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"One" can do as one wishes, but I think it's pretty clear that the reality of DS3 isn't that it would implicitly play better on a gamepad - but that Obsidian developed a multiplatform title, with the emphasis on the console version controls.
I doubt anyone here really thinks it would have worked better on a gamepad if they'd developed it as a PC only game.
I'm not saying they did it out of spite, and I'm sure they didn't. I think it was a lower priority given the realities of game development and the nature of multiplatform challenges in terms of design and UI functionality. But that kind of thing can only change if consumers react against it, instead of shrugging it off as a reasonable approach to the PC platform.
I know Obsidian gets a lot of slack around here, but I think it's important to focus on things in a neutral way - if we're to talk about what SHOULD be.
Generally, in the modern industry, console versions are given a higher priority - simply due to the sales potential. Most likely a suit mission statement.
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Well, what I was trying to get at was that we should really ask: If they had designed this particular game for the keyboard and mouse, would it have been a better game, or is it a better game played with a controller (or is it neutral, in which case your argument for "common usage" of keyboard/mouse should take precedence for the PC version).
I have no opinion on the matter, by the way. I just think maybe we should be a little more willing to accept controlles as a valid input device? As I said, I never owned one, but then, how many of our games really take advantage of the keyboard anymore? The case for the mouse is better, I think. But still, maybe the controller often IS the better input device? Maybe it IS the better input device for DSIII type games?
I have no opinion on the matter, by the way. I just think maybe we should be a little more willing to accept controlles as a valid input device? As I said, I never owned one, but then, how many of our games really take advantage of the keyboard anymore? The case for the mouse is better, I think. But still, maybe the controller often IS the better input device? Maybe it IS the better input device for DSIII type games?
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that makes two of us. I liked Dungeon Siege!
Well, Flight SIMs were most definitively "designed for Joysticks" when they were still popular.
So, this isn't new.
So, this isn't new.
Make that three of us. To be honest though, I prefer those screensavers you can get for free...
I *tried* to like Dungeon Siege, but I just couldn't really get into it, and it was the same with DS3. DS1 felt like one long corridor battle to me, but I'll admit I didn't play very far.
I should give DS2 a try one of these days. From what I've seen, that game is closer to the type of party-based RPGs that I prefer.
I should give DS2 a try one of these days. From what I've seen, that game is closer to the type of party-based RPGs that I prefer.