Recommend me a laptop

Astor

Watcher
Joined
December 10, 2010
Messages
14
Hello all! I am on the hunt for a gaming laptop, preferably one that can handle all the shiny new releases at their best, and be able to deal with most games that might come out for a couple of years after. Since there seem to be a lot of gaming aficionados on these forums, I thought I might get your opinion, instead of the overly technical jargon I would have to handle on a devoted tech forum.

So, to begin with just how "compatible", for lack of a better word, is windows 7 with games, both old and new? I'm currently using vista and have no problem running games based on the OS, but I've heard that might not be the case with 7.
It'll be 64 bit, duh.

Now, on to the graphics card; first, nVidia or Radeon? I've been hearing good things about the GTX series, so 570 or 580? How big is the difference between them?

Next comes the processor; can I be assured that the i7 is the people's unanimous favourite?

The manufacturer; any difference whether it be acer or what have you?

And finally, what about the SSD? Is it worth it? I've been getting mixed signals on this.
Anything else anyone can bring up or suggest?
Cheers!
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
14
So, to begin with just how "compatible", for lack of a better word, is windows 7 with games, both old and new? I'm currently using vista and have no problem running games based on the OS, but I've heard that might not be the case with 7.
It'll be 64 bit, duh.

Compatibility is fine and probably even better than Vista's by now, simply because Windows 7 has been more popular and so there are likely to be more workarounds and patches to make older games work. There may be the rare old gem that will not work but that should really be a rare occurrence.

Now, on to the graphics card; first, nVidia or Radeon? I've been hearing good things about the GTX series, so 570 or 580? How big is the difference between them?

I'd go for the 570. It has the better price/performance ratio. With the 580 on the desktop you're paying something like +30% for only +10% more performance. This is probably even worse with the mobile versions since the highest end mobile graphics chips are super expensive.

Next comes the processor; can I be assured that the i7 is the people's unanimous favourite?

On the desktop and for gaming, no. The unanimous favorite for desktop gaming would be the i5-2500K but since the mobile i5 models all seem to be dual core only, you are right that you would want to be looking for an i7 quad core for your laptop like e.g. the i7-2820QM.

And finally, what about the SSD? Is it worth it? I've been getting mixed signals on this.

That's a definite and affirmative yes. I've made the switch to SSD (on a desktop computer) a couple of years ago and there is no going back. It's awesome. With a gaming system you should go for a 240/256GB model so you have plenty of space for the OS, applications and games.
Try to find out what kind of SSD the notebook has built in though. I would not recommend a SandForce (SF-2281) drive. They may be fast but they also seem to be having quite a few reliability issues. I'd recommend looking for an Intel (320/510) or Crucial m4 model. I personally have a pair of Crucial m4's in my desktop and so far it's been fast and smooth, stable sailing all the way.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,201
Thanks Moriendor! Windows 7 it is then.

As regards the graphic cards, how's ATIs Radeon HD 6970? Or should I just stick with the 570?

I've also noticed that there's quite a price gap between the i7-2820QM and the 2720. Is the increase in price matched by it's performance, or is it similar to the 570 and 580. Then I have a friend who's recommended the Intel i7 980X. How's that?

And again, I must ask, can these various cards run something like the Witcher 2 maxed out? It looks absolutely gorgeous and is obviously a brute on the machine, so I want something that can handle it properly. And will these last me for at least 3-4 years, for the most part? I'm looking for a long term investment.

Since there'll obviously be a lot of different opinions, I'd appreciate it if anyone who has a gaming laptop (or who recently built a new rig) could chip in and give me their first hand opinion, so that I have a wider pool of choices.
Cheers!
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
14
As regards the graphic cards, how's ATIs Radeon HD 6970? Or should I just stick with the 570?

ATI is OK as well (and probably slightly cheaper) but ATI seems to be having a lot more compatibility issues with games new and old and the 6970 is getting hotter and drawing more power than the 570. If you were looking for a desktop system and trying to keep within a certain budget then the 6970 might be a decent pick but since you're looking for a laptop I'd recommend to opt for nVidia and the 570.

I've also noticed that there's quite a price gap between the i7-2820QM and the 2720. Is the increase in price matched by it's performance, or is it similar to the 570 and 580.

The difference is 2MB cache and +100MHz which is indeed pretty much insignificant. I just looked up the OEM prices. The OEM price for the 2820 seems (or seemed? The article I found is from January) to be US$ 563 and US$ 378 for the 2720. So for the 2820 one is paying an almost US$ 200 premium for a very minor, negligible performance gain, i.e. if you consistently find laptops with 2720 CPUs that are considerably cheaper than their 2820 counterparts then it would not be worth paying the extra premium just for the faster CPU (always got to check out the whole package, of course).

Then I have a friend who's recommended the Intel i7 980X. How's that?

Good but "old". I'd go for a Sandy Bridge i7-2820/2720.

And again, I must ask, can these various cards run something like the Witcher 2 maxed out? It looks absolutely gorgeous and is obviously a brute on the machine, so I want something that can handle it properly.

No graphics card in the world can run The Witcher 2 all maxed out :) . If you enable "über sampling" in The Witcher 2 then even a desktop GTX 580 or 6970 is going to produce no more than ~20 fps.
However, as long as über sampling is disabled then a mobile GTX 570 and a quad core mobile CPU should be sufficient to produce ~35 - 40 fps on average. The game won't grow wings and learn to fly but you'll get playable frame rates at least.

And will these last me for at least 3-4 years, for the most part? I'm looking for a long term investment.

That's hard to tell. If things stay like they are right now, i.e. lots of crossplatform development where games need to be made to run on the aging X360 and PS3 then there's a good chance that a laptop like what we are discussing here will last that long.
But if Sony or MS release a new console next year or in 2013 then the game will change completely. Then it's likely that the usual cycle will begin all over again where even high end PCs will be barely sufficient to run the latest games.
There have been many rumors about the new consoles from MS and Sony, ranging from "next year" to "nah the current gen will last at least until 2015".
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

It might also depend a bit on Nintendo who will release the Wii successor Wii 2 (Project Café) next year. Nintendo is in a different corner of the market from MS and Sony (of course a corner that MS and Sony would very much like to be in or get more of) but if the Wii 2 should turn out to look like a smashing success prior to its release then I'd be very surprised if MS and Sony would sit idly by and watch while Nintendo is raking in all the money. Seems more likely they'd counter with a X720/PS4 that would then combine the casual features of the Wii/Wii 2 while maintaining/expanding the "hardcore" capabilities of the current gen.

Since there'll obviously be a lot of different opinions, I'd appreciate it if anyone who has a gaming laptop (or who recently built a new rig) could chip in and give me their first hand opinion, so that I have a wider pool of choices!

I'm in the "recently built a new rig" club and to be honest unless someone is forced to via certain circumstances (like limited desktop space) I wouldn't really recommend a laptop for "serious" gaming at all. Gaming capable laptops are crazy expensive compared to desktops and you can't really do much in terms of upgrade or even if you can then the upgrades are crazy expensive, too.
Laptop components are also lower performing than their desktop counterparts so you end up spending lots of money just to match the performance of desktop components that would probably cost less than half of what you are spending for your laptop.

That's why I would always recommend to get a desktop and build it on a solid foundation, i.e. first off a really nice case and a HQ power supply. Then a good board, CPU, RAM, SSD and you're set. Then all you need to do for the next three years is buy a new graphics card (always the second best model like the 470 or 570) every 12 - 18 months (sell the old one on eBay). Upgrading the CPU or mainboard should usually not be necessary if you watch the market and pick a good time to build your MB/CPU foundation.
For example, I think that anyone who bought something like an Intel P55 board and a Core i7-860/950 with 4 or 8 gigs of RAM back in 2009 will still be going strong today with "only" a GPU upgrade and it should also last well into next year and maybe even beyond with another VGA upgrade.
The games where a more modern CPU/board combo will make a real difference are few and far between. The only games I can think of would be Metro 2033 and Crysis (Warhead) on the highest settings.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,201
ATI is OK as well (and probably slightly cheaper) but ATI seems to be having a lot more compatibility issues with games new and old and the 6970 is getting hotter and drawing more power than the 570. If you were looking for a desktop system and trying to keep within a certain budget then the 6970 might be a decent pick but since you're looking for a laptop I'd recommend to opt for nVidia and the 570.

Alright then, you've sold me on the 570 :D

The difference is 2MB cache and +100MHz which is indeed pretty much insignificant. I just looked up the OEM prices. The OEM price for the 2820 seems (or seemed? The article I found is from January) to be US$ 563 and US$ 378 for the 2720. So for the 2820 one is paying an almost US$ 200 premium for a very minor, negligible performance gain, i.e. if you consistently find laptops with 2720 CPUs that are considerably cheaper than their 2820 counterparts then it would not be worth paying the extra premium just for the faster CPU (always got to check out the whole package, of course).

Good but "old". I'd go for a Sandy Bridge i7-2820/2720.

The i7 it is then.


No graphics card in the world can run The Witcher 2 all maxed out :) . If you enable "über sampling" in The Witcher 2 then even a desktop GTX 580 or 6970 is going to produce no more than ~20 fps.
However, as long as über sampling is disabled then a mobile GTX 570 and a quad core mobile CPU should be sufficient to produce ~35 - 40 fps on average. The game won't grow wings and learn to fly but you'll get playable frame rates at least.

Ha, point taken. Besides, the games looks to be pretty enough without having to enable every single option available. As long as it doesn't play like I'm running through treacle I should be satisfied.

I'm in the "recently built a new rig" club and to be honest unless someone is forced to via certain circumstances (like limited desktop space) I wouldn't really recommend a laptop for "serious" gaming at all. Gaming capable laptops are crazy expensive compared to desktops and you can't really do much in terms of upgrade or even if you can then the upgrades are crazy expensive, too.
Laptop components are also lower performing than their desktop counterparts so you end up spending lots of money just to match the performance of desktop components that would probably cost less than half of what you are spending for your laptop.

That's why I would always recommend to get a desktop and build it on a solid foundation, i.e. first off a really nice case and a HQ power supply. Then a good board, CPU, RAM, SSD and you're set. Then all you need to do for the next three years is buy a new graphics card (always the second best model like the 470 or 570) every 12 - 18 months (sell the old one on eBay). Upgrading the CPU or mainboard should usually not be necessary if you watch the market and pick a good time to build your MB/CPU foundation.
For example, I think that anyone who bought something like an Intel P55 board and a Core i7-860/950 with 4 or 8 gigs of RAM back in 2009 will still be going strong today with "only" a GPU upgrade and it should also last well into next year and maybe even beyond with another VGA upgrade.
The games where a more modern CPU/board combo will make a real difference are few and far between. The only games I can think of would be Metro 2033 and Crysis (Warhead) on the highest settings.


Well, a gaming laptop isn't my first preference either but I'll be off to college shortly and a desktop isn't something I care to lug about. Are there any companies that build laptops suited for future upgrades? That would definitely be extremely convenient.

So, my rig is starting to take shape;
Windows 7 64bit, GTX 570, i7 2720, still on the fence as regards the SSD, but then again I already have an external HDD, so why not.

And how much RAM would you suggest? 8 gb or so, or would 4 be sufficient?
Thank you once again, you've been extremely helpful.
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
14
...still on the fence as regards the SSD, but then again I already have an external HDD, so why not.

You won't regret your decision if you choose an SSD. With a mobile system the increase in performance and smoothness over a slow spinning hard drive should be even more noticeable than on the desktop.

And how much RAM would you suggest? 8 gb or so, or would 4 be sufficient?

Well, while 4GB should be sufficient, the price difference between 4GB and 8GB should be near negligible at the moment because the prices for RAM are at an all-time low. So you should be able to double the RAM at a small premium. That's why I'd go for 8GB even if it is kind of unlikely that any game in the next two or three years is ever going to require as much. Better safe than sorry :) .
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,201
What's the price range, and how big do you want it? Generally, the Asus gaming series have been fairly solid in recent years as far as price vs performance goes. The series is called Republic of Gamers, and there's a wide variety of laptops. I have one of the older 17" versions, and I've never had a problem.

Of course, you could always have one built at places like Dell.com, but you end up paying more in total.

The only drawback of buying Acer/Asus/etc is the amount of bloatware they ship with. You really need to clean it out once it arrives, uninstall a bunch of rubbish software.

A friendly tip: Be sure that whatever you buy has sufficient cooling. We're talking about fairly powerful specs for a laptop, don't just shove it all into a regular chassis and call it a day. It would end up being redicilously hot.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,583
Location
Bergen
I'd prefer a 17" screen, but I'd settle for 15". I'm not too concerned about the weight though. However, I don't want anything as hideous as the Alienware designs, right eyesores they are. The price range is hovering around $2000.

I've taken a look at the Dell build your own section, but they don't seem to have the specs I'm looking for. Hadn't hear about Asus before, will definitely look into it.
The bloatware doesn't concern me too much, I've had a lot of experience cleaning it out from my old laptop to stretch its capabilities.

What would you recommend as regards cooling? External fans that I've used have proven to be uniformly useless.
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
14
You can usually plug an external monitor into your notebook. So when you're not travelling you could simply buy a cheap 22-24" TFT with the right connector. Or even connect the notebook to a HD-TV and play with a gamepad. Although it remains to be seen if it's fast enough for FullHD gaming.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
7,830
I don't know how Asus compares, but both Dell laptops over the years I've had came with broken hardware. Wouldn't recommend them, unless you have lots of patience and don't mind some start up frustrations.

After a few weeks of repair and configuration, they've performed admirably though. These are the monster engineering workstation / desktop replacement models.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
15,679
Location
Studio City, CA
Hah, just when I think I've got the ideal configuration I read a new review that mucks up my plans. Does anyone have an opinion on the i7 2920XM and the i7 LGA1366?

Is there really any difference in between the different manufacturers products? I mean, Asus, Dell, Acer, what's the deal?

I also have a friend telling me his g73JW has an incredible built in cooling system that keeps it well ventilated throughout. Aaaaahh......
Is there any external fan capable of doing a good job?
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
14
I've been keeping track somewhat of gaming laptops for when my laptop dies as its on the way out.

The best value that I can see right now is the Asus G series ones such as the G73 and G53. I've had a 17 in gaming laptop before and will not be getting another as it was just to large and heavy. The 15 in widescreen is my preference. I've seen and played with a G53 and its nice plus decently priced.
 
I've been keeping track somewhat of gaming laptops for when my laptop dies as its on the way out.

The best value that I can see right now is the Asus G series ones such as the G73 and G53. I've had a 17 in gaming laptop before and will not be getting another as it was just to large and heavy. The 15 in widescreen is my preference. I've seen and played with a G53 and its nice plus decently priced.

That's the "Republic of Gamers" series I recommended. Indeed, they generally do offer the most bang for your bucks right now.

Like I said though - they do come with a lot of bloatware that needs to be removed. Other than that, they're pretty good.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,583
Location
Bergen
Alright then, you've sold me on the 570 :D

Just note that for a laptop you will normally get GTX 570m instead of GTX 570, which means a performance level of GTX 460 for desktops. But on the other hand, there is only GTX 580m that is faster for laptops from NVidia, so it is not a bad choice.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
169
Location
Luxembourg
First of all laptops are not the best choice for gaming, however it's not as bad as many people say. I have nearly two years old laptop and so far everything run fine (including The Witcher 2), mostly on maximum settings without AA (TW2 on low settings with maximum texture resolution, DE HR on high, thanks, consoles!). Of course for that price you'd have a lot better desktop, but for your situation laptop is a better choice indeed. Remember that while you do have a lot worse GPU performance on laptop, you also run games in lower resolution (most 15.6" laptops got 1366x768, as mine does), so assuming you are not connecting external monitor you can get some performance by that lower resolution when comparing to desktop. CPU shouldn't be a problem for years, even if you buy something cheaper, my Dual Core 2 is definitely enough even for today. As for RAM - 4 GB is enough, get more only if you can get it really cheap. HDD are slower - 5400 RPM in most cases, but it's not really an issue either, even in new games. You can wait 2-5 seconds more for loading new areas, can't you? In the end it's the GPU that's a pain in the ass. If you get a good one (for a laptop) you'll be able to run all games for 2-4 years, but after these 2 years expect running them in low details.

On the other hand it's not like there are many new games worthy of buying ;) Thanks to the consoles games doesn't look much better and due to that don't require a lot better hardware.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
730
Back
Top Bottom