Post Apoc RPGs are mssing a HUGE opportunity

Here is an attempt to succinctly describe a large subject:

Fantasy/Magic settings are easily the most popular in both the video and tabletop versions of Role playing games.

Mainly its because:
1. Its a setting that is unbridled from the constraints of our modern reality, and unbound in the ability to present the creations of practically limitless imagination.
2. The massive variety available in fantasy gameplay, from melee to ranged fighters, rogues, paladins, rangers, to mystics like bards, clerics, druids, wizards and warlocks is usually not nearly matched by other settings. If you look at the available classes and prestige classes in D&D 3.5 edition for example, hundreds of combinations are available, many of which were in NWN.

So Post Apoc settings like Wasteland and Fallout could improve the sense of wonder, and the variety and fun of gameplay by expanding their gameplay capabilities.

Good examples of wider scope Post Apoc settings include tabeltop games Numenera, Gamma World and Rifts, to the animated series Thundarr the Barbarian.

They combine the sense of wonder and mystery of a truly long ago cataclysm leaving mostly a medieval-like societies with mutants and myths and psionics and mutated abilities at least.

Take Wastleand and combine it with the wit, mutations and psi abilities present on Gamma World and you have a much more expansive game. Not to mention use that settings lore as inspiration to truly stretch out from the usual vanilla setting.

The best example of this philosophy in effect and use is the Numenera Tabletop RPG and new CRPG.

If Wasteland 2 and After Reset would incorporate some fo these features it would greatly expand the gameplay, variety and fun and the market interest as well.

I would hope Wasteland 2 will have the capabilites to add things like this in the toolset. And that After reset will use some of these concepts.

Fantasy is based on the past, post apocalypse is based on the future. No matter what, the future is no longer as sexy it used to be. Story and representation, and giving people what they want to fancy over.
Put a fantasy settings in the future and the magic does not work that well.
The past, the past, people want to escape by plunging by thinking of the past.

Many fantasy features have already been transposed in many futuristic games, like psychic abilities or seemingly magical apparatus and technologies. Teleportation for example. I do not quite understand what you're trying to promote ? Would you like to see futuristic games become more oriented towards fantasy through the inclusion of magic ?

So the first basic point is as follows:

1. Doing a few little changes to the setting brings many new possibilites. For one, adding mutations and psionic/psychic powers to both Players characters as well as monsters and NPCs would add a ton of new gameplay to the Post Apoc settings in games like Wasteland and AfterReset.
Right now, characters in those games have only the options to use melee weapons or ranged weapons. They also are basically just soldier type combat.
Adding Mutations and Psychic powers enables using things like extra large size, additional arms (lol), or pouncing on opponents as some examples of combat mutations.
Psychic powers allows some combat abilities similar in ways t how Mages are used in Fantasy games. The new Post Apoc game Underrail uses Psychic powers t great effect as an example. So does Mass Effect.

So the result is that Wasteland 2 and After Reset are missing these features and providing a much more limited combat as well as utility gameplay experience.

Xcom has those mechanics...
Not that much of an RPG but still

buckaroobonzai said:

Take Wastleand and combine it with the wit, mutations and psi abilities present on Gamma World and you have a much more expansive game. Not to mention use that settings lore as inspiration to truly stretch out from the usual vanilla setting.

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I couldn't agree more. I think W2's beta is a massive waste of potential. It's so tame, so boring... shoot giant insects and raiders, hurray!

Take Agricultural Center, for example. You can get infected by mutated plants spores, and either cure yourself with the antidote, of suffer a deuff. That's boring. Why not have a infected party member mutate into a half-plant/half-man, that still fights for you but has a bunch of huge disadvantages and advantages?

AS you said, Gamma World does it right.

felipepepe said:

I couldn't agree more. I think W2's beta is a massive waste of potential. It's so tame, so boring… shoot giant insects and raiders, hurray!

Take Agricultural Center, for example. You can get infected by mutated plants spores, and either cure yourself with the antidote, of suffer a deuff. That's boring. Why not have a infected party member mutate into a half-plant/half-man, that still fights for you but has a bunch of huge disadvantages and advantages?

AS you said, Gamma World does it right.

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Sounds Great Felipepe, lets make our own Post Apoc CRPG. I have an RPG rule system designed already. And I am partnered with the designer of Chronicles of the Rift/Shattered Time game and game engine toolkit as a business.

I have ideas non-stop for a game like this, whose in!!!? LOL, but really?

I have tons of ideas as well, but I'm too busy ATM with my book project already.

felipepepe said:

I have tons of ideas as well, but I'm too busy ATM with my book project already.

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This doesn't need to be a project to work on and complete in a year. This could be a longer term project that can be n the planning and outline stages for the next year or two. Since I am already working on a CRPG already, this would fit great to just plan out and design the systems and plotlines/quests etc. Keep it in mind and let me know if you would be interested n a long term planning project for a Gamma World type game.

buckaroobonzai said:

This doesn't need to be a project to work on and complete in a year. This could be a longer term project that can be n the planning and outline stages for the next year or two. Since I am already working on a CRPG already, this would fit great to just plan out and design the systems and plotlines/quests etc. Keep it in mind and let me know if you would be interested n a long term planning project for a Gamma World type game.

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I love hearing ideas, even the wild and crazy ones.
Bring them on buckaroo!

Are you really working on a CRPG? Is there details and this is something I've missed?

When I hear of fantasy/sci-fi blending together in games, it mostly evokes Steampunk memories for me. I'm sure it takes a lot of work and effort to balance all that out in a game, but if well done, it truly is nice. I'll admit that hearing that an upcoming product offering both of these will almost instantly get my full, undivided attention.

I don't know, if you add tons of mutants and psi-powers to a post apoc setting, it gets a very fantasy-like vibe for me - wich isn't bad, I like fantasy, but not what I expect from a post apoc setting.

Wisdom said:

I love hearing ideas, even the wild and crazy ones.
Bring them on buckaroo!

Are you really working on a CRPG? Is there details and this is something I've missed?

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I have joined in the development of Chronicles of the Rift, a game design toolkit similar to the Aurora and Electron engines from Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. There will also be a full game with that design engine called Shattered Time, where Time travel is involved traveling from a Fantasy Medieval time, to a Steampunk era, to a Futuristic era,
Here is the website:
http://pixelationgames.com/

Here is a summary:
A mysterious Rift has torn it’s way backwards through time and space, echoing from an event that hasn't happened yet. Begin your journey in one of three timelines to unravel a sequence of events leading to the end of all life on Earth.

In 1200 AD, the forests of Europe are alive with magic and secrets lost to time. When the Rift tears through the land, whole kingdoms vanish, new threats and monsters terrorize the people. Once great Camelot lies in ruins, and rumors speak of Avalon appearing in the mists.

In 2000 AD, a world unlike the one you know, a history changed sometime in the distant past. A world of industry built upon Magic as a source of energy. With the appearance of the Rift the world is losing its magic at an accelerated rate. Society on the brink of destruction, a World War on the rise. A solution is promised, a machine to control the Rift and turn it against the enemies of Europe.

In 2400 AD, magic is all but lost in a world wracked by a war that nearly destroyed it. Society is split in two, the great Dome Cities rising above the ruins below. War has been declared again, but no one knows against whom. The Rift appeared the day the moon was split in two, the world is doomed to destruction, and no one knows who is responsible.

The mysteries at the core of each of these timelines, improbably connected across time, will reveal the threads of a plot spanning millennia. Secrets that will question the history of the world itself.

A storyline spanning across six major timelines and countless minor Rifts. Discover a world much like our own, as you uncover the lore of an altered history more and more divergent across time. Is there a source? A common point where something changed, or simply a picture of ‘a world that could have been,’ if myths and legends wer

Carnifex said:

When I hear of fantasy/sci-fi blending together in games, it mostly evokes Steampunk memories for me. I'm sure it takes a lot of work and effort to balance all that out in a game, but if well done, it truly is nice. I'll admit that hearing that an upcoming product offering both of these will almost instantly get my full, undivided attention.

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For a CRPG, Arcanum is a good example of a Steampunk version. This is post apoc, so the tabletop RPGs Gamma World and RIFTS would give you more of a better idea how it would play.

Fenris said:

I don't know, if you add tons of mutants and psi-powers to a post apoc setting, it gets a very fantasy-like vibe for me - wich isn't bad, I like fantasy, but not what I expect from a post apoc setting.

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If you like Arcanum the feel would be similar. Also, check out the new Interplay game Tides of NUmenaera which would have a similar feel. The games Underrail and Mass Effect's psy powers are also a similar feel.

The mutations I would use would not be caused by Radiation, they would be caused by Genetic Engineering and DNA genetic activation and additional code modifications.

Many animals would be hybridized then "Uplifted" as in the David Brin science fiction novel series.

Another option I am considering is possibly setting the post apoc game on another planet, maybe not even this solar system, there are many possibilities that would be fun to explore.

Two other games that use similar mechanics in a PC game to Gamma World the tabletop RPG are: Entomorph (available on GOG!) and Final Fantasy Legend III/Saga 3 (available on the ancient Game Boy, as well as the DS with a translation patch).

I agree with you buckaroobonzai that Post-Apoc games should be and have those features you mentioned. This is exactly the direction we did with our game.

If you guys like Post-Apoc RPGs, then forgive me for this plug but I'd like to invite you to check out our Re-launch of our kickstarter Graywalkers Purgatory on Wednesday Sept 24th. For those not familiar with it, it's a supernatural post-apocalyptic strategy & tactical RPG set in a world where Heaven, Hell and Earth have merged through an event called the Rupture. Also, as far as tabletop RPG feel, that is exactly the direction we have gone. The game uses a table top RPG system we created that we will be releasing as a table-top pen-and-paper RPG next year.

We consider our game inspired by a combination of features from XCom, Jagged Alliance, Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum and Mount & Blade.

Anyway, i personally love the Post-Apoc setting and this is our way of contributing to the genre. We just hope it's something you guys might like and make its mark just like the other great post-apoc settings before us.