Diablo 3 - Let's talk game, not DRM!

I'm doing pretty well in Inferno, Act 2. I was about ready to stop playing, but then I read the Bliz update on what they're intending to do in the upcoming patches - and it seems the game is on track to correcting the worst parts of the design - like the loot.

Inferno is just an exponentially escalating gear check - and I find it has less to do with skill than it has to do with farming patience. Inevitable given the legacy, I suppose - but it would have been nice to have AI become increasingly challenging or something like that. Having to farm gold for gear on the AH is rather tiresome - especially since it seems all but impossible to find upgrades for yourself while doing it.

It's a farming simulator once you reach Inferno, I'm afraid.

So far I've been playing without ever looking at the AH, I haven't had too much trouble yet. Obviously it might be harder in inferno, but clearly in order for the items to get on the AH in the first place, some people have must have managed to clear it on their own, and to do so enough times that had excess good items left to sell.

The items I've been finding have been keeping up with my level pretty nicely, in fact I sometimes find items that I can even equip yet. If you are having trouble finding gear though, remember to check the merchants. Sometimes you can find some pretty major upgrades just by visiting the store.

I am really enjoying it. I think one thing I like is the lore and journals you find so you don't feel like you are just blindly looking for loot and killing stuff. Of course you are but the lore helps make the world feel less empty and have more...heart?

Diablo 3 reminds me of Titan Quest (duh) and I really liked that game and I actually played through Epic, I believe but not the last level of difficulty. Regarding Diablo 3, I'm not sure if I'll play through Nightmare. With Diablo 2 I played through Nightmare and by the time the expansion came out, I just played it through on Normal and still had my butt kicked I'm leaning towards Samhain's line of thinking and would rather play all the characters on Normal and ZI don't want to worry about grinding for money and obsessing over high end gear. I'm guilty of obsessing but over the past three years, I've lightened up and I just enjoy the game and try not to obsess over stuff

fadedc said:

So far I've been playing without ever looking at the AH, I haven't had too much trouble yet. Obviously it might be harder in inferno, but clearly in order for the items to get on the AH in the first place, some people have must have managed to clear it on their own, and to do so enough times that had excess good items left to sell.

The items I've been finding have been keeping up with my level pretty nicely, in fact I sometimes find items that I can even equip yet. If you are having trouble finding gear though, remember to check the merchants. Sometimes you can find some pretty major upgrades just by visiting the store.

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Lots of people exploited broken builds and chest spawns the first week, which is why we're seeing act 4 inf items for sale on the AH.

According to Bliz, only 2% of the audience have even seen Inferno - let alone beaten it through "legitimate means".

I recommend getting to Inferno before commenting, as the game is completely different in several ways when you get there - especially post Act 1.

You playing a melee or ranged class, Dart? I'm getting to the point that I'm fed up with my monk in Hell difficulty.

Oh I have seen Inferno being played, and I do understand....it is insane. Even the Blizzard testing team could never beat it. It's intended to be a major roadblock for all but the absolute best players, which quite honestly, most of us are probably not.

DArtagnan said:

Lots of people exploited broken builds and chest spawns the first week, which is why we're seeing act 4 inf items for sale on the AH.

According to Bliz, only 2% of the audience have even seen Inferno - let alone beaten it through "legitimate means".

I recommend getting to Inferno before commenting, as the game is completely different in several ways when you get there - especially post Act 1.

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fadedc said:

If you are having trouble finding gear though, remember to check the merchants. Sometimes you can find some pretty major upgrades just by visiting the store.

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This.
I've found a lot of good stuff at Merchants, dont forget about them!

fadedc said:

Oh I have seen Inferno being played, and I do understand….it is insane. Even the Blizzard testing team could never beat it. It's intended to be a major roadblock for all but the absolute best players, which quite honestly, most of us are probably not.

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If by best, you mean people who have the time to farm for the 99.9999 percentile of loot, yeah. There's no such thing as "good enough" in Inferno. Mobs end up having such a cheesy combination of abilities that no amount of skill will help you. At least in D2 you would struggle but things would still be possible without having the best of the best gear.

Oh yeah, I've heard about certain champion pack combinations that are completely unbeatable. But still when even the slightest mistake can kill you in an instant, skill can make a huge difference. Maybe not enough to let you defeat an invulerable minions, fast, illusionist, arcane enchanted pack, but still enough to make a difference on many other occasions.

Drithius said:

If by best, you mean people who have the time to farm for the 99.9999 percentile of loot, yeah. There's no such thing as "good enough" in Inferno. Mobs end up having such a cheesy combination of abilities that no amount of skill will help you. At least in D2 you would struggle but things would still be possible without having the best of the best gear.

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Drithius said:

You playing a melee or ranged class, Dart? I'm getting to the point that I'm fed up with my monk in Hell difficulty.

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I'm playing a Monk

I think Hell was pretty easy overall, and I actually had more trouble with a few NM encounters.

Inferno is a huge step up in gear check, especially act 2+. If you expect something like NM -> Hell, you're in for a shock.

But I'm not finding the actual gameplay that much harder. Sure, some pack combinations are very nasty - but it's pretty much a matter of mitigating damage and doing some yourself. You still have to dance around and avoid all kinds of insane damage effects, but that was also the case in Hell.

I'm convinced Blizzard intended for each separate class to mitigate AND deal most damage through their primary stat - which means DEX for you and I. Armor mitigates ALL damage, not just physical damage. Dodge mitigates on top of that - and DEX is a pure percentage increase for our damage, which means it scales incredibly well.

I had ~4200 DPS unbuffed when I entered Act 1 Inferno - and now I'm up to ~32K. So, you can get some idea of the upgrades needed. But it's not quite as bad as it sounds, because - as I said - the primary stat scales very well. As soon as I get my hands on a couple of decent 1.1K+ DPS weapons - I expect to reach 100K DPS buffed, easily.

Some people seem to go super defensive and stack vitality - but I think that's counter to the intended design. I think it's a natural choice given the damage output - but it's not working with your class mechanics.

Blizzard streamlined a LOT of mechanics from Diablo 2 - and I find gear choices much more simplistic and boring. But at least it's straightforward when it comes to surviving Inferno.

I've got the following characters at the moment:
- Monk, 57, will be done with Hell in not too long.
- Witch Doctor, 30-something, currently at some point in Nightmare. I honestly don't remember where I left him, I stopped playing him a while back.
- Barbarian and Wizard still doing normal mode. Limited playing time because I only play them with friends.

I don't think I'll go through Inferno with the Monk after I'm done with Hell. I'll be level 60 at that point, so no more levelling to be done, and the gear grind can be avoided by buying top notch level 60 gear on the AH. After that it's a matter of rushing through Inferno, avoiding as much trash as possible (the main bosses aren't too hard as far as I know - it's mostly champions and similar that cause trouble). Bottom line: I just don't see the point. I might do it with one character just to do it, but if so I'll leave it at that.

Also, for people struggling with money: Play alts. You get enormous amounts of gold by levelling characters that start with fully a upgraded blacksmith/jewelcrafter. You can get the same amount of gold by farming, of course, but I generally find that a lot more tedious.

My friend who has had the most success in progressing through Inferno (and who also plays a monk) has adopted a very different strategy. His main focus is on resistance gear, and he places a significant focus on vitality as well. He's one of the best theorycrafters I know, and it does seem to be working for him, so I trust he has some idea what he is doing.

Pumping your main stat is obviously good too, but you do start to get some seriously diminishing returns just based on the way scaling works. Your first 50 dex pumps your damage from 100% to 150%…….a 50% increase which is huge. But if you already have 1000 dex, then the next 50 take you from 1100% to 1150% which is less then a 5% increase. It's still adds up, but at some point it's reasonable to consider other things. The dodge you get from dex also has some diminishing returns as well, I think that this may be true of all defensive stats.

DArtagnan said:

I'm playing a Monk

I think Hell was pretty easy overall, and I actually had more trouble with a few NM encounters.

Inferno is a huge step up in gear check, especially act 2+. If you expect something like NM -> Hell, you're in for a shock.

But I'm not finding the actual gameplay that much harder. Sure, some pack combinations are very nasty - but it's pretty much a matter of mitigating damage and doing some yourself. You still have to dance around and avoid all kinds of insane damage effects, but that was also the case in Hell.

I'm convinced Blizzard intended for each separate class to mitigate AND deal most damage through their primary stat - which means DEX for you and I. Armor mitigates ALL damage, not just physical damage. Dodge mitigates on top of that - and DEX is a pure percentage increase for our damage, which means it scales incredibly well.

I had ~4200 DPS unbuffed when I entered Act 1 Inferno - and now I'm up to ~32K. So, you can get some idea of the upgrades needed. But it's not quite as bad as it sounds, because - as I said - the primary stat scales very well. As soon as I get my hands on a couple of decent 1.1K+ DPS weapons - I expect to reach 100K DPS buffed, easily.

Some people seem to go super defensive and stack vitality - but I think that's counter to the intended design. I think it's a natural choice given the damage output - but it's not working with your class mechanics.

Blizzard streamlined a LOT of mechanics from Diablo 2 - and I find gear choices much more simplistic and boring. But at least it's straightforward when it comes to surviving Inferno.

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I'm not very far yet, so I do not have gear above level 30 yet saved. But if any of you that is playing feels like it... I'm more than open to trading/giving away some of it. I've been saving Rares+ (and a few good uncommon).

I guess I could sell some of them, but I tend to be a little lazy an using the auction other than to buy is too much trouble .

Oh and on a side note a friend took me through uh...what I guess is a replacement for the cow level, that was just plain weird heh. Anyone else been there yet?

Anyway if anyone feels like trading, receiving some decent gear or even playing . Just add me Korgh#1190

I am thoroughly enjoying D3.

I have a question: Aside from the epeenery, is there any benefit to playing Hardcore?

EvilManagedCare said:

I am thoroughly enjoying D3.

I have a question: Aside from the epeenery, is there any benefit to playing Hardcore?

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I am curious about this too. I died a handful of times on the normal playthrough and have also died a few on Nightmare difficulty so I don't want to bother unless there is an obvious benefit.

The more I play the more I like this game. I don't know if it was today's patch or what, but I found a medallion that was at least 10 times better then anything else I found in the game so far. I have only played a mage so far...gotta try the other classes.

Just finished the game in normal difficulty with my lv 31 demon hunter I felt the game was too easy though. Hopefully its more challenging in nightmare mode.

I LOVE DEMON HUNTER Will continue to nightmare mode with her.

Also playing wizard and monk in normal difficulty. They are quite fun too. Tried witch doctor as well and hated it

fadedc said:

My friend who has had the most success in progressing through Inferno (and who also plays a monk) has adopted a very different strategy. His main focus is on resistance gear, and he places a significant focus on vitality as well. He's one of the best theorycrafters I know, and it does seem to be working for him, so I trust he has some idea what he is doing.

Pumping your main stat is obviously good too, but you do start to get some seriously diminishing returns just based on the way scaling works. Your first 50 dex pumps your damage from 100% to 150%…….a 50% increase which is huge. But if you already have 1000 dex, then the next 50 take you from 1100% to 1150% which is less then a 5% increase. It's still adds up, but at some point it's reasonable to consider other things. The dodge you get from dex also has some diminishing returns as well, I think that this may be true of all defensive stats.

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You don't have to take my word for it, but I'm a pretty good theorycrafter myself - when a game manages to get me to that place

I'm not suggesting you focus on your primary stat to the exclusion of other things - that would make everything else superfluous in the design, and Blizzard aren't THAT stupid

I'm just saying that most of your damage and mitigation seems to be "intended" to come from your primary stat (not counting the raw numbers on gear - like armor and DPS). Which, essentially, means that if you could remove your primary stat - you'd see a far more significant reduction in damage and mitigation than any other single stat.

But you need a balance of all things - and at some point your primary stat will start to yield less than other stats, like res/armor/IAS and so on.

Even so, I think you generally want your primary stat on gear in ADDITION to whatever else you're aiming for. Not necessarily at all times - but generally. So, even when IAS will give more DPS than Dex (assuming equal amounts on the budget) - you likely still want Dex on top of IAS.

I call it the "bread and butter" stat - and I think Blizzard just wanted most people to be able to make reasonably informed upgrade decisions.

That doesn't mean that other things can't work - and going heavy on resistance is basically the same thing - because it's just mitigation in another form. I would never focus on RES/VIT - because that would make the game WAY too slow for my tastes. I prefer to kill fast rather than survive longer. This is where the primary stat is excellent - because it gives BOTH damage and mitigation/avoidance.

EvilManagedCare said:

I have a question: Aside from the epeenery, is there any benefit to playing Hardcore?

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It's fun?

I don't see anything e-peen about Hardcore mode without a Ladder mode.

It's basically about being a huge coward and farming items on as low a level as possible, so as to sell/upgrade for an eternity - so you can move on.

If people can get through Inferno in 2-4 weeks - then that's impressive. But if they take 3 months, it just means they know how to avoid challenge for a very long time.

Personally, I think Inferno is balanced in such a way that it's almost impossible to avoid dying without exploiting or farming endlessly.

If someone manages to clear content naturally - as in defeating most packs and bosses as a HC character, THEN I'll be impressed