SW: Old Republic Preview

Well let's just say I am glad someone is enjoying it (DA2) and felt like they got their money's worth. :p I personally don't feel that game lived up to its hype so I have a hard time buying into it this time around.

I think I'll wait for opinions from real players (who aren't under NDA ;) ) on a final version of the game. I definitely don't have enough faith in Bioware at this point to pre-order anything they make.

So, um one game that didn't live up to it's hype and they become the worst company;) Funny, that never affected Piranah bytes after that god awful gothic 3.

I'm enjoying dragon age 2 more in the story then the combat, so that to me is ok.
 
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So, um one game that didn't live up to it's hype and they become the worst company;) Funny, that never affected Piranah bytes after that god awful gothic 3.

I'm enjoying dragon age 2 more in the story then the combat, so that to me is ok.

It depends on the company but with Bioware I think a lot of us sort of pinned our hopes on them and viewed them as an RPG company from way back, but now they are making comments like the RPG genre is irrelevant, 'when you push a button something awesome has to happen" (no it doesn't, not for an RPG) and then there is the whole EA thing. Some of us have been around long enough to remember Origin. And no I don't mean the crappy Steam-wannabe. I mean the gaming company.
 
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It depends on the company but with Bioware I think a lot of us sort of pinned our hopes on them and viewed them as an RPG company from way back, but now they are making comments like the RPG genre is irrelevant, 'when you push a button something awesome has to happen" (no it doesn't, not for an RPG) and then there is the whole EA thing. Some of us have been around long enough to remember Origin. And no I don't mean the crappy Steam-wannabe. I mean the gaming company.

Yes, we have been around long enough to remember what they did to Origin, and trust me it pissed me off just as much as the next guy. I have been seeing some improvements in the EA mentality of destroying things lately though, a sign of the times perhaps.
 
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Didn't I say I never pre-ordered MMOs?

Then why am I considering doing so for this one?

I'm probably just stupid.
 
Didn't I say I never pre-ordered MMOs?

Then why am I considering doing so for this one?

I'm probably just stupid.

You'll probably end up ordering it from Steam.

Says pibbur who actually doubt it will be released on Steam.
 
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You'll probably end up ordering it from Steam.

Says pibbur who actually doubt it will be released on Steam.

Seems EA wants it to be "Origin" exclusive for the digital version. If so, then I think they're pretty stupid.

The game is so high-profile and you don't want to annoy people wanting to check it out, by forcing them to yet another DD.
 
I've been in the beta for a while now (saying that is not against the NDA). And, I don't think this is against the NDA when I say that I played *ahem* tested the game from Friday when I got from work and installed the client, thorugh 5:30 am Saturday when I couldn't believe that was the time, then almost all day Saturday and Sunday (take some 5-6 hours off for sleeping and eating).
If you liked KotoR, you'll probably like SW:TOR, that should basically be your deciding point.
 
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I've been in the beta for a while now (saying that is not against the NDA). And, I don't think this is against the NDA when I say that I played *ahem* tested the game from Friday when I got from work and installed the client, thorugh 5:30 am Saturday when I couldn't believe that was the time, then almost all day Saturday and Sunday (take some 5-6 hours off for sleeping and eating).
If you liked KotoR, you'll probably like SW:TOR, that should basically be your deciding point.

Well, that is pretty much the reason I'll be checking it out.

I don't expect much more than a decent singleplayer game in an MMO environment, and more than that will be a pleasant surprise.
 
Oh, and I hope I get a chance at the beta... I'd love to see if this game is ready for release in terms of the technical state.
 
Am I the only one that thinks $60 up front plus $15 a month is a lot? You know once they bleed all the addicts fans dry they will lower the up front cost or put it on sale just to get more people in the door.

Also, $5 "Digital pre-order fee"? Really EA?
 
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I never pre-order anything. In a world of marketing hype, I think any such pre-order is simply foolish.

Now, if Obsidian were to make a Steampunk open-world RPG blending elements of Fallout and Arcanum, I'd go against that mantra.
 
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Am I the only one that thinks $60 up front plus $15 a month is a lot? You know once they bleed all the addicts fans dry they will lower the up front cost or put it on sale just to get more people in the door.

Also, $5 "Digital pre-order fee"? Really EA?

You got it all wrong.
The game is $60 yes, that's expensive but that's EA for you, but it includes the first month. Also, if things are like other MMOs, it's more like $14 or even $13 if you buy multi-month periods. This is actually cheaper than most single player RPGs. I don't know about you, but I finish most RPGs in less than a month, so if I play TOR for, say, 6 months, I'd be saving money actually compared to buying a standard RPG every month.
And the $5 pre-order fee is no different than any $5 preorder you get at any store, it's counted towards the final amount (i.e. your CC gets charged $5 now, $55 when it goes live).

Having said that, if you can wait, do wait (not me, I'll be the first one downloading the thing as soon as I can). You will probably find it cheaper after a few months, you will get a more polished experience as there are always issues in any MMO's launch (from bugs to queues, etc), the economy will have been on for some time so you won't pay the crazy prices people charge in the Auction House when any MMO is new
 
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There's no logical argument against MMOs in terms of entertainment hours vs money spent.

They're cheaper than pretty much everything that's not entirely free.

Another matter, though, is whether the "entertainment hours" are comparable to the ones you get with a singleplayer RPG.

That is an entirely subjective thing, and there's no way to make that determination in any other way.

They're promising 200 hours pr. character, and that's just the story content. If the game is anywhere near KotOR quality - I'd say that's a very nice return on your investment.

Now, I don't believe they can fully pull it off, and I don't believe that the MMO structure can truly match the sensation of being at the center of it all - without breaking all kinds of immersion barriers. Also, I don't believe that they can create cutscenes and emotional context on a "modern singleplayer level" - so I'm expecting something slightly quirky and more than occasionally unconvincing.

I also don't expect the level of closure I'd get from a singleplayer CRPG. If they intend to make this MMO last for years, which they obviously do, then they can't end the story with any kind of true finality. Seeing as how you're going to be able to go off the beaten linear path and complete all kinds of sidequests or "MMO stuff" - I don't expect to feel as if I'm finishing a game - but just one story.

Not sure that will accomplish for me what a singleplayer game normally accomplishes. I'm fairly sure it won't.

It's not the first MMO to focus on story - not by a long shot. LOTRO did it very well, but without voice acting. Age of Conan did it for the first 20 levels - and there are others.

None of those games truly pulled off the singleplayer sensation of getting a cohesive wholesome experience with the required amount of finality to it. They were too rooted in the traditional MMO conventions for the other parts of the game, and it remains to be seen if SWToR differs in that way.

But even if the actual story content is subpar and middling, I happen to quite like many MMO features - and I like the idea of being a part of a "living community" even if I'm not particularly social with strangers. I'm especially interested in how they're handling crafting and open world PvP. Both things have potential to be worthwhile activities.

Also, it's one of the VERY rare RPGs with several appealing classes. I'm not sure I've ever played one with that many that I wanted to check out. I'm expecting, at the very least, to play it through from both the Republic and Sith side - which means 400 hours of potentially strong singleplayer content.

It's basically 15$ for a month where the problem isn't the amount of content, but the limited time you have available. Even at 8 hours a day, you couldn't get through more than half of it.

Not a bad deal, is it.

The unwillingness to pay 15$ for that huge amount of content, is one of the major reasons the genre has been infested with F2P models. Nothing is more detrimental to gaming than that - and it has all but ruined the future of the genre.

I understand the trepidation about committing to a monthly subscription, but if you have any intention of actually playing the game - you're not being fleeced.
 
you got it right. Yes, it's like comparing a movie vs. a TV series. The movie can be about saving the universe and they have 2-3 hours to develop the story, but when you have 15/20 episodes per season and hopefully several seasons, you can't save the universe every 3 hours, so you shouldn't expect it to have a 'big closure', but if the writers are good, the stories can still be good and engaging without the need of having you saving the universe.
 
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It's not the first MMO to focus on story - not by a long shot. LOTRO did it very well, but without voice acting.

Playing Lotro was the single most immersive experience I've had in any recent game... and then they released the first expansion and the magic got stripped away. Even if Bioware/EA manage to awe us all with the initial release, I'm somewhat pessimistic on how they'll keep it all flowing through later expansions and not succumb to formulaic gameplay.

The more I think about it, the more I become uninterested in this game or any new MMO, regardless of who else is playing.
 
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The unwillingness to pay 15$ for that huge amount of content, is one of the major reasons the genre has been infested with F2P models. Nothing is more detrimental to gaming than that - and it has all but ruined the future of the genre.

I understand the trepidation about committing to a monthly subscription, but if you have any intention of actually playing the game - you're not being fleeced.

I'm not objecting to the monthly fee as much as I'm objecting to the high up front cost. The only alternative to the monthly fee is heavily pushing microtransactions to the point where you don't get a complete experience unless you pay or people are paying to get shortcuts so everyone isn't on a level playing field.

I guess I take exception with the high up front cost because they are going to be getting plenty of money from users in the long term anyway so they should be offsetting the cost to purchase the game. I'm also 100% completely certain they will lower the game cost or put it on sale at some point probably not terribly long after release once they have reached saturation point on all the people willing to pay $60 to get in the gate.

That sort of thing goes on all the time with single player games, but unlike those MMOs don't really need to do that because they have subscription fees coming in. To me the only reason they are doing it is simply because they can. It's a big name and they know a certain segment is really anxious to play this game. Just like they are going Origin only because they can.

The digital pre-order fee really yanks my chain too. Why are people paying extra to pre-order something in digital format again?

Having said all that, I'm not going to go back in forth in some big internet argument with pages and pages of text walls about it. If you guys want to pay it then may the force be with you. :p I personally think the upfront cost is too high for a service that is an unknown to me and won't be checking it out until they lower it, which they will.
 
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If you have no problem with the monthly fee, then you're not part of the problem I was talking about :)

About the "high" upfront cost, I don't agree it's particularly high. You get as much game as you can muster for 30 days. That's pretty sweet for 60 bucks.

They don't really know how many people would be willing to commit to a subscription, and I think it's quite fair to expect people to pay for the client.

That said, to me, it's not about what's "fair" in terms of pricing - but what I'm willing to pay. I don't understand the concept of "fair" in this business no matter how you slice it.

I don't think anyone needs millions of dollars, so any game generating that kind of return for individuals isn't priced "fairly" in my mind. Some F2P games do that. I think everyone deserves a decent living, so when games utterly fail after years of hard work - that's not "fair" in my mind.

There's just no way for me to determine what is "fair" unless I know exactly what went into making the game, from the perspective of every single person on the team. Even then, I don't know what kind of price would be fair.

I only know that 60$ for several hundred hours of quality content is more than "fair" in terms of what I'd be willing to pay for something like that.
 
About the "high" upfront cost, I don't agree it's particularly high. You get as much game as you can muster for 30 days. That's pretty sweet for 60 bucks.

They don't really know how many people would be willing to commit to a subscription, and I think it's quite fair to expect people to pay for the client.

I would agree with that if there were some sort of offline version or portion of the game that still remained playable without subscribing but there isn't.

Of course that's par for the MMO course these days with even Diablo getting rid of the offline portion of their game.

But you're right I suppose, it's about what people are willing to pay. I'm not willing to pay $60 up front for something that is unknown to me and requires a long term subscription fee to remain useful.

Then again, buying digital downloads and carefully monitoring prices and sales has made me a lot more frugal lately. I almost never pay full price for games anymore. I have to pretty much be dying with anticipation to do that and I am far too cynical and skeptical (with good reason!) these days for much of that.

If the user reviews are mostly good on release then I'll probably be one of the second or third wave of users to enter this game and as wolfing noted, it will probably be a more stable experience by then.
 
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But you're right I suppose, it's about what people are willing to pay. I'm not willing to pay $60 up front for something that is unknown to me and requires a long term subscription fee to remain useful.

I don't think many really would. Personally, I only invest that kind of money when I feel I have sufficient information about a game. I've been following SWtoR for a long time, and I'm pretty sure what it's going to be about and how it will play.

But I'm not pre-ordering before the NDA is lifted or I hear what I need to hear from someone I trust.

Not because I don't think the game will be for me, but because I don't want to pay for early access in a game that might have severe launch issues. I've tried that before, and I'm not making that mistake again.

But if it turns out to be stable and polished, then 60 bucks is nothing for a full months worth of quality gaming. I'd consider that extremely cheap, actually.

It's a chance, of course, but given my experience with gaming and the MMO genre specifically, I have a pretty developed "6th sense" about what games are going to be worth it, even without having played them. SWtoR should definitely be worth it, but I don't have the feeling it will overwhelm me or be all that impressive. I think it will scratch my KotOR itch just enough - AND provide a potential long-term experience that I can enjoy with my RL friends.
 
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