Fallout 3 - Reviews @ GameBanshee

GameBanshee writes in to say they have their Fallout 3 review online (as well as the start of their database). The score is 8.4/10 and here's a snip on the character system:

Bethesda also dumbed down the character system a bit, which I found to be kind of sad but not entirely surprisingly, since games seem to keep going in that direction. For example, the traps and throwing skills of the original Fallout games were combined into a single explosives skill, and even with a low rating in the skill I never failed to disarm a trap. I’m not even sure if it’s possible to fail. Then there’s the minimum strength requirement for weapons, which doesn’t exist any more, and so characters can use any weapon they want, even if it’s bigger than they are. And finally, the prerequisites for perks were reduced. Fallout 2 had some perks that required an attribute rating of 10, but in Fallout 3 the highest attribute requirement is 7. That might not sound like a bad thing, but it means that most characters can learn all (or nearly all) of the perks, and you’re not forced to make any choices. A good character development system should always require you to make choices.

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More information.

Errr, yeah, you can use any weapon even if your strength is low. However, if you've got low strength, you aren't going to be able to carry much besides that big gun.

The perks thing I do agree with, though I never played Fallout 2. How hard was it to raise your main stats in that game? In Fallout 3, you can raise each stat one point via bobble heads (if you can manage to find them) or you can blow a perk to raise one stat one point.

You DO have to make plenty of choices about development. There are, oh, probably about 50 perks you can get in the game. Some of which can be picked multiple times. You'll probably only get about a dozen perks. That's quite a bit of choice making right there.

Ah well, looks like there's a lot of other good info on GameBanshee about the game.

Huh? You get one Perk per level, so that's 20. Take out Here and Now and a bunch of similar stuff (why would you want to push through another level when you'll hit the limit before you've seen half the map?) and it's hard to see most players would face any difficult dilemnas.

Zloth said:

Errr, yeah, you can use any weapon even if your strength is low. However, if you've got low strength, you aren't going to be able to carry much besides that big gun.

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Not true.

A character with STR 2 can carry 170 lbs (which is kinda ridiculous in itself).

The biggest Big Gun weighs 30 lbs, with most of them around 15. That means that she can easily carry three Big Guns plus one or two Small Guns or Energy Weapons, plus armor, with plenty of room left over for loot, since ammo and meds weigh nothing. STR is the most pointless stat in the game, since it only affects Unarmed Combat and that already-overly-generous carry limit.

A very biased review. It spends more time focusing on what F1/2 did better and very little time on what F3 did better.

JemyM said:

A very biased review. It spends more time focusing on what F1/2 did better and very little time on what F3 did better.

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Well, that's because the only thing F3 did better is conversion to 3D.

Prime Junta said:

STR is the most pointless stat in the game, since it only affects Unarmed Combat and that already-overly-generous carry limit.

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I wouldn't say so.

First, one thing is clear: characteristics are gimped compared to Fallout 1/2. The choice of one point more or less in agility mattered in Fallout 1 (well 2 points, since uneven numbers didn't do much), in Fallout 3 you will notice very little impact.

A good example is what actually is the most useless characteristic in the game: Charisma. Charisma is rarely testing in dialogue (intelligence and strength are used more for speech checks) being substituted with speech. You can easily put charisma on one and still be a smooth talker.

All the other characteristics at least impact secondary stats (carry weight for strength, HPs for endurance, APs for agility, points-per-level for intelligence, compass for perception and crit hits for luck) - charisma is the lone dead one. Dump stat.

JemyM said:

A very biased review. It spends more time focusing on what F1/2 did better and very little time on what F3 did better.

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Are you sure you read it? It only talks explicitly about Fallout 1/2 in the intro and character stats page (where Dhruin quoted from), it talks about Fallout 3 an sich without directly comparing much for most of the review.

Besides, the list of what Fallout 3 does better than Fallout 1/2 will be pretty short. Especially for a Fallout fan like westlake.

Z said:

The perks thing I do agree with, though I never played Fallout 2. How hard was it to raise your main stats in that game? In Fallout 3, you can raise each stat one point via bobble heads (if you can manage to find them) or you can blow a perk to raise one stat one point.

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While I'm sure you won't find all bobble heads, they're not really as hard to find as one would imagine - I ran into charisma and intelligence in my first playthrough without even trying. And I'd hardly call Intense Training blowing a perk considering it's a level 2 perk - your other options are lady killer/black widow (which are interesting and recommended to try at least once), 4 sets of useless +5 to two skills perk and swift learner - a useless perk since you're almost guaranteed to hit level 20 unless you rush through the game.

Not to mention almost every piece of clothing has magical stat-raising properties.

But it's kind of a moot point in the sense that it's not useful to directly compare how easily one can gain points to characteristics between Fallout 3 and Fallout 2 simply because characteristics are significantly less important to the character system in Fallout 3. That means the balance is just different, period.

Z said:

You DO have to make plenty of choices about development. There are, oh, probably about 50 perks you can get in the game. Some of which can be picked multiple times. You'll probably only get about a dozen perks. That's quite a bit of choice making right there.

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I feel fairly safe in saying most perks are so useless the choice is pretty much a non-choice. The customization options are there nothing doing, but with 20 perks to pick out of 50 and most of those 50 being too uninteresting or downright useless to pick it's hardly like you're making tough decisions.

This almost sounds as if there weren't no talent-checks at all. I mean on the "useless" talents.

But on the other hand : This is hard to prove.

Does FO3 have kind of a window showing all checks ?

Brother None said:

Besides, the list of what Fallout 3 does better than Fallout 1/2 will be pretty short. Especially for a Fallout fan like westlake.

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And that's the problem. There are several things which Fallout 3 offer that F1/2 did not, but none of it will be good enough and it would be blasphemous to even suggest such a thing.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Does FO3 have kind of a window showing all checks ?

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I'm not sure what you mean by "talent". Characteristic, perk, skill? Because all three can be checked in dialogue and they are; perks like black widow/lady killer/child at heart are meant to open new choices, but occasionally even stuff like scoundrel or cannibal gives you extra options. Characteristics are checked where appropriate (strength for intimidating, intelligence for "smart" remarks (that are usually more obvious than smart)), and speech is checked often (other skills like medicine and science are also checked, but less often).

And, indeed, Fallout 3 tells you when it's checking a skill or characteristic. Outside of the Wasteland Survival Guide, I did not see any Charisma checks. The most commonly checked characteristic does seem to be intelligence, while putting charisma at 1 made no difference for my high-speech character.

JemyM said:

There are several things which Fallout 3 offer that F1/2 did not.

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That is not the same thing as doing something better.

Brother None said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "talent". Characteristic, perk, skill?

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Yes, I think these are the words for it.

In TDE, it is spoken of "Talents", rather.

And with a "window" I rather meant some kind of windoiw where one could see the results. I mean for a check, for example, like in TDE for picking up herbs. Without the proper skill - or "Talent" - one cannot pick up herbs.
Dice are rolled against a certain number, then, so to say.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

And with a "window" I rather meant some kind of windoiw where one could see the results. I mean for a check, for example, like in TDE for picking up herbs. Without the proper skill - or "Talent" - one cannot pick up herbs.
Dice are rolled against a certain number, then, so to say.

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Yeah, pretty much. Fallout 3 always tells you explicitly if a certain option is available due to a skill. For speech checks, a dice is rolled with a percentage success - and that percentage is also shown, as in:
"[Speech 53%] I think you should pay me 500 caps"
Other checks don't have dice rolls, they're just "yes or no" things, as in "If player intelligence is higher than 7, then add this dialogue option"

Ah, thanks, that's what I wanted to know.