Your dream game (that will never be made)

I've been thinking a lot about game design lately (largely due to reading this series), which always fills my head with ideas for games that will never happen. Thinking about that got me thinking about how many good ideas people have that get bypassed in favor of making yet another generic mass market game.

In the midst of the indie boom, we may see more of these sorts of games, but let's face it, making a game is a lot harder than most people think it is and most of them will end up either really stripped down or dying long before they see the light of day. That depressing thought aside, does anyone else have a dream game that they know no one will ever make?

I've got a few, but I'll stick to just one for now: an open-world superhero RPG. It's such a perfect combination, and it's insane that we've not seen it used more. There are a few open-world superheroesque games out there, like Prototype (or so I hear), Saints Row 4, the Arkham games (semi-open), and some of the Spiderman games, but they're all action games where you play someone else's character, not RPGs. We've had a few MMOs based on this idea, but I've yet to see an MMO that feels at all like an actual RPG.

No, I see in my head a game based in a huge, well-developed city. Your PC starts out as a normal person and, during the tutorial nonsense, somehow gets superpowers, which are chosen by the player as the character levels up. You get stronger/smarter/faster and learn new abilities, fighting crime (or committing it, if you prefer), dealing with other superpowered individuals, and investigating various mysterious goings-on as you see fit. The main concept would be to let the player make whatever sort of character they want and plenty of stuff to do with them.

Why it won't happen. This game would be big and necessarily complex, no matter how it was done, and I can't see the suits at any of the big developers wanting to put that much effort into anything that didn't have, say, an Avengers or Batman logo on it, and at that point it would turn into a completely different game, based on existing characters and mythology without the need for all that character development. I think a smaller company could probably pull something like this off, but on a much smaller, 2D scale, but it's hard to see it working.

Menigal said:

We've had a few MMOs based on this idea, but I've yet to see an MMO that feels at all like an actual RPG.

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MMO = grind
That's not a game I'd dream of, ever.

But anyway, you already know what my dream games are:
- no grind and no unstoppable respawns (includes sandbox generated crap)
- no scam (includes gamechanging DLC, gambling, money laundry systems, false advertising)
- no console/phone limitations, no priority to controller/touchscreen
- a proper savegame system with manual F5 and separate slots for different saves
- patch the bloody thing BEFORE you start developing something else
- a proper written story to follow
- proper subtitles
- if RPG then no levelscaling except on bosses

Such games are rare, but still happen sometimes. And as you may notice, I didn't mention sound nor graphics separately as it goes to the phone/console limited performance category. Also, as you can see I couldn't care less for voiceovers, if they're in, good, but I won't cry if they're not.

My dream game that will never be made is Gladius 2.

Your idea doesn't seem that far-fetched after the success of games like Skyrim. Sure, it might not be old-school complexity - but I could see such a game working pretty well.

City of Heroes, Marvel Heroes and others seem to have been reasonably successful, and even if they're all pretty mainstream - there's enough complexity to suggest a large audience might take to a more complex and mature GTA RPG.

I've got a dream game that's essentially my version of the ultimate iteration of System Shock. It's the kind of game I've designed in my head for the past 10-15 years, and which would require a team of dozens and a budget of millions - so it'll obviously never happen.

However, I'm writing the story behind the game as a novel (well, an attempt at a novel) which might work as some kind of outlet of this idea.

I have several other dream designs, but this is definitely "the one" - if I had to pick one.

It's based on the strengths of System Shock, many of which were completely overlooked in both System Shock 2 and the Bioshocks. This includes an open ended level design, a sophisticated future OS (elaborate hacking), heavy resource managment, a compelling cast of characters all with significant backstory (and all of them dead), the potential of a living AI that's almost entirely unpredictable, a slow and non-linear unfolding of story based on player dedication and interest, and so on.

It'd take several pages to describe it sufficiently, and I don't have the stamina right now - unfortunately

Let's just say that I've spent a lot of time thinking about how far the core design of System Shock could be taken - and then I've tried pushing all the boundaries in my head. I doubt anything like it will be made for many years - but I can always hope.

My dream game has always been a "spiritual successor" to Morrowind. No, I'm not talking about Oblivion or Skyim. Something a bit more "old-school" then those.

I always loved the hand-placed loot in Morrowind. Finding legendary items in certain caves that were guarded by fierce enemies; THAT was amazing to me. And you knew that cave or tomb would always have that piece of gear in it, so in subsequent play-throughs you can go after it again, IF you can survive, that is.

I also love the text-based dialog system, but felt it could be expanded much further. Morrowind mods pretty much did this, but this idea I had came before I was even aware that you could mod games like that.

So, my dream game would basically be Morrowind on steroids. Hand-crafted world down to every minute detail, hand-placed loot all over, tons of interesting dialog, interesting locations with unique encounters and deep RPG systems with more stats and categories than you could shake a stick at.

DArtagnan said:

It's based on the strengths of System Shock, many of which were completely overlooked in both System Shock 2 and the Bioshocks. This includes an open ended level design, a sophisticated future OS (elaborate hacking), heavy resource managment, a compelling cast of characters all with significant backstory (and all of them dead), the potential of a living AI that's almost entirely unpredictable, a slow and non-linear unfolding of story based on player dedication and interest, and so on.

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From what little you've said about it, it sounds like it might be close to what I envisioned Bioshock being when they first started talking about it (as opposed to, well, Bioshock as it was).

My dream game which will never be made? Oh boy...

* Open world.
* No level-scaling.
* Hand-placed loot.
* Interesting quests.
* Skills and stats are learning-by-doing.
* Tight economy (gold/money should have a meaning).
* No character levels.
* Base building.
* Infinite resources (which should be difficult to obtain, though).
* A crafting system which is actually useful.
* Exploration should be rewarding.
* No hand holding.
* Limited respawn.

Menigal said:

it sounds like it might be close to what I envisioned Bioshock being when they first started talking about it (as opposed to, well, Bioshock as it was).

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You mean something like this…?

My perfect RPG:
Isometric
Open world
Party based
Turn based with RT movement outside of combat
Limited respawns
Good crafting system
Survival elements(hunger, weather exposure)
Huge skill tree and good itemization.
Darker fantasy setting with good writing like Witcher or PS:T.

Menigal said:

From what little you've said about it, it sounds like it might be close to what I envisioned Bioshock being when they first started talking about it (as opposed to, well, Bioshock as it was).

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Not quite, though I also expected Bioshock to be a real evolution over System Shock and its sequel. Well, I expected that until they started marketing it as a shooter, and I understood that wasn't going to happen.

But my dream game is taking it much, much further than what you'd expect System Shock 3 to be.

• open world
• great story
• tb or rtwp combat
• interesting companions (allowing to take as many of them with you as you want)

But the killer feature, which as well is the reason it will never be made (in my life time at least) is an authentic AI for creatures. All end every actions (combat, dialogue, daily routines etc.) of all and every creatures (NPC, animals, monsters etc.) would be calculated by their AI. You would need to model the creatures' personality (desires, fears, alignment, skills etc.) and knowledge about the world beforehand. By this knowledge, the personality and the world's current state the AI calculates the creature's actions. You wouldn't have predefined dialogues, but could talk to NPC in self-written dialogs (like a chat). You would actually have something like a world simulation, where you would have to simulate the economic, ecologic and political systems as well. Actually you would have to simulate everything.

This game won't be made because the state of the art in this research area is decades behind of what would be needed for this approach. E.g. to this point machines simply don't understand natural language well enough for meaningful conversations. Additionally current AI systems are very specialized for certain tasks (like chess computers, Watson, industrial robots,…). You can't simply teach them new things. It's impossible to teach Watson how to play chess without a major redesign. So you don't have general intelligence, which would most likely be needed for a simulation like this.

One of the other games I've wanted to see for ages is a real Star Wars RPG. No expanded universe crap, no clumsy prequel mess, but classic Star Wars. That means no Jedi (possibly playable by finding an old retired Jedi like Obi-Wan), no Sith (because they didn't exist until long after the films came out), and a game world carefully crafted out of the same roots as the original films. It is a time of Rebellion, etc. Space gangsters and cowboys, blah blah.

Make it a cross between Morrowind, a good Grand Theft Auto, Dark Forces, and Freelancer. Set it in a small, out of the way system somewhere, possibly with some hyperspace disruption or something that's restricting travel to a doable section of space. Throw in a few factions for fun. The Rebels are kicking around in the shadows, maybe a few criminal gangs, local governments/peacekeepers. Give the player lots of skills to choose from, a good selection of races, and let them go. Let them get their hands on a cheap ship (maybe stealing it from some outpost in an early quest?) and let them fly around a bit. Scatter each planet with a good selection of vehicles to race around on, some bases, settlements, and mysterious ruins to explore.

Eventually, it comes out that the Empire's up to something nefarious and needs to be stopped. Does the player help the Rebels, the criminals, forge an alliance between the system government and one of them, or disrupt everyone's plans and go it alone?

Why it won't happen. This game would be huge. Even if each "planet" was only a tiny space to explore, putting all of that in with space exploration, a good faction/quest system, and freeform character development would be a massive undertaking, and they know they can get just as much money by slapping a Star Wars logo on a Flash game.

An even bigger reason, Star Wars isn't Star Wars anymore. Even ignoring the baggage that came with the prequels, there's a lot of extra stuff from the expanded universe that's taken over the brand. Look at most of the games and toys that are out right now. If they're going to invest in anything, it's either going to be for that market or for whatever completely-misses-the-point weirdness JJ Abrams slaps together.

It's another one that a small company might be able to do in a simpler form, but they'd have to go with Pulp Fantasy Space Opera instead of the official brand.

Pitfall! ARPG

JDR13 said:

You mean something like this…?

Spoiler: Early concept art

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Did they not start working on Bioshock in like 2002? I have vague memories of reading about it in a PC-gamer, a magazine that I stopped reading back in early 2002, where they showed that very picture. Back then Bioshock was going to take place in an abandoned WW2 biologic lab

Since we can let our dreams run wild I can tell my dream game that never will be made:

My dream RPG is a mix of different play styles. It’s an open world RPG which consists of multiple universes. Much like Planescape where a central city like Sigil and several other worlds connected to it. Each of these worlds this main hub connect to has a different RPG combat system from others. These are:

- A real time combat with TPS camera. In this mode the combat system is much like Blade Of Darkness (or Dark Souls) where different combos, perfect timing is important for success rather than button mashing. Single character gameplay with one supportive NPC.

- A real time combat with FPS camera. In this mode combat system is a mix between Skyrim (sword and shield combat), Dark Messiah of M&M (interactivity of environment) and Arx Fatalis (spell system). Also single character gameplay with one supportive NPC.
- Wizardry 8 like party based, turn-based with deep combat system, party formations, etc.
- Grid, party, turn-based, M&M X: Legacy, M&M 3-5 style gameplay.
- RTwP, isometric gameplay style like Baldur’s Gate. Party based of course.
- Isometric, turn-based gameplay much like Fallout, ToEE or Blackguards.
- Diablo, Divine Divinity style hack&slash.
- Even a nostalgic grid world with text based combat of early M&M, Wizardry games.

You can enter and exit these worlds any time you want via this hub. Each of these worlds has 10 hours of gameplay minimum and 50 hours maximum.

Other aspect of this dream RPG:

- No level scaling, no respawning, no random encounter
- Hand placed monsters, items, NPCs, etc. Not a single bit of these worlds are randomly generated.
- A multi-dimensional fantasy world with imaginations go wild (Planescape)
- Story telling, descriptions like in Ps:T. Millions of words of dialogues, descriptions. All of them have VO.
- A responsive world and NPCs, where your actions change the reaction of the world. Real choices and real, unpredictible consequences.
- Intricate quests that spans multiple worlds.
- A really hard gameplay in the beginning, but becomes easy little by little. Very, very slow progression where gaining a level really matters.
- Memorable party members, NPCs with different personalities, agendas, secrets.
Now I can return to the real world.

Nameless one said:

My perfect RPG:
Isometric
Open world
Party based
Turn based with RT movement outside of combat
Limited respawns
Good crafting system
Survival elements(hunger, weather exposure)
Huge skill tree and good itemization.
Darker fantasy setting with good writing like Witcher or PS:T.

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Sounds reasonably close to what Divinty:Original Sin is. Not exactly, but probably close enough for you to look into in if you have not already.

Buck Rogers: countdown to doomsday meets jagged alliance 2 meets pirates!

The only way to make your dream game happen is to make it yourself. Unfortunately dream games that get everything just as you want take time, but mine will eventually be fully realized.

Simple:
A sci-fi RPG with Gothic style open worlds and gameplay, where you captain a space ship and have Star Trek like focus on exploring the unknown.

And please, no "chosen one" or saving the entire galaxy or anything like that. It's just one captain and his/her crew, not superman.

Also:

An open world Deus Ex with emphasis on cooperative gameplay and deep RPG systems, and "System Shockian" locations focused on exploration and investigations.

Think a serious GTA cyberpunk game with Ninja motorcycles and lots of elaborate hacking.

Dream? And it HAS to be a dream that can't happen? Oh, I can make these all day! One thing I've always missed in games with exploration is the fact that it's basically impossible to find anything of real use that 10,000 other people haven't also found. My dream game is one where it's basically impossible NOT to find anything of real use that nobody else has found.

Let's see… how about a space RPG with plenty of really alien aliens and a vast galaxy of planets to explore. The player starts in one of a few thousand starting areas with enough cash to buy a low grade space ship. Fuel won't be a problem - all ships have engines that can move quite fast running off the Big Bang background radiation. About a third of the stars will have a planet with something that could be of use and maybe a quarter of those will be inhabited.

The advancement will be skill based and there will be many skills which you can find out in space. And by "many" I mean more skills than there are players that play the game. Every inhabited planet will have at least one skill that's uniquely found only there plus a few that are more common - though they might be attained in different ways. You may get some by training with masters, some by simply doing them a lot. You can get skills by observing NPCs using the skills. You can get them by purchasing modifications to your own body and brain. You might even be able to forcibly remove them from NPCs if you get the skills and equipment to pull that off.

Your ship will, of course, advance as well. You can use the money you make doing your heroic/dastardly deeds to buy new ships to fly and new alien tech to put in them. Once you get rich enough, you can start buying some bases which you can turn into trading hubs that charge docking fees or build them up militarily to give yourself someplace safe from all the NPCs that seem to have taken offense when you stole the skills of their most respected leaders.

The ship will naturally have limits on how much technology can be on board but the player skills are liable to become unwieldy. They should probably be limited to just 100 or so skills and even that is going to require some pretty serious voice recognition technology. There's no way a GUI is going to be able to cut it.

Why is this just a dream? Because building it would require the entire gaming industry to work on it for a few decades or some ridiculously advanced procedural generation routines - probably both. Essentially, the developers will need to build at least one space RPG per customer!