Witcher 3 - CD Projekt tackles downgrade issue

Exactly. I don't think that anybody here is saying that the "downgradegate" should be forgiven and forgotten (I have a "CDPR minus 200 brownie points" note in my little black book) but that we should move on...
 
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Eh… I don't think it should be forgiven and forgotten at all… Why do you think consumers got fed B.S. from the start? Because bean counters graphed the short attention span of your typical gamer versus day one purchases and willingly pushed forth a "sweep it under the rug" approach to maximize sales.

It's all well and good that the gameplay is being enjoyed but to casually shrug off flagrant deception is dumb.

Edit: Wewps. Misread Zah's post!
 
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Except that's not really what's happening. You're basically just repeating the same things over and over and over again, and I'm pretty sure that's what CelticFrost's point is.

It's hardly my fault that some people didn't follow the discussion or what my points were so that i have to repeat it all over again.

I can see you didn't follow the discussion so i'm not sure why you are even here? What happened was that ChienAboyeur attacked my arguments again, so i replied. Other people joins in, now even you (who said over a week ago the the discussion wasn't of interest to you. lol..) Haha some of you people…
 
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Why do you think consumers got fed B.S. from the start? Because bean counters graphed the short attention span of your typical gamer versus day one purchases and willingly pushed forth a "sweep it under the rug" approach to maximize sales.

But it's not about (IMO) why CDPR did it but how they handled it. Without consoles there would be no Witcher 3 in its present form. So it's not a question of "maximizing sales" but of having any sales at all. I can understand that. What i don't understand is why they didn't come out and say it when challenged.
 
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What objective? You're not making any sense. The reason to follow a game is surely not to be fooled by the developer in the end, and it's certainly not up to you to decide the reason why people invest time in following a game over several years.
Fooled? What about thinking that people who spend time watching teasers invest time? That is not fooling oneself?
People spend time and get what they want: material to fancy over.
Teasers are teasers, teasing is teasing, the principle is to showcase a product in the best light possible with all the required make up.
No one gets away with this. See Watch Dogs, same with the removal of dynamic shadows in Oblivion. Google Oblivion downgrade or Watch Dogs downgrade, same discussions.
Noone? What about Bethesda and the release of Skyrim? Was it mentioned already? If not, again, the same repeating: Up to release, Bethesda promoted Skyrim through features like procedural AI for dragons giving them adaptative behaviour, (dragons were, of course, not a big selling point for Skyrim), a virtual economy that could be influenced by the destruction of major production buildings etc

And that is only Bethesda. Some other studios, when critical input was released, were protected from the shit, threads went locked and people invited to move their discussion elsewhere.

So noone? By the way, since it is about lying. What about the claim that no one was given a free pass while having been mentioned twice already that Bethesda was given a free pass for Skyrim?
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, because I highly doubt you think it's good that developers are lying, no matter if it's Bethesda, CDPR or anyone else. It's not like it helps you as a customer in any way.
Helping me as a customer?
The whole thing was exposed before release. People who spent time following the product should have noticed. If they wanted to help themselves as customers, they had the bits of information in hand.

In my case, CDR projekt went out to tell they wanted to make a product to tell a story. And what kind of story that is, the kind that so called RPgers love and consider top class litterature, full of interesting characters and written in subtlety as it cant fail to mention that it is a world of gray shades etc
Gameplay: been a while that the new standard for that combat was exposed on this site. Did not expect otherwise and it was confirmed by two streamers.
The only remaining selling point was the way the gameworld ticks. Some time ago, the hypothesis that CDR Projekt would rely heavily on pseudo behaviours was emitted. And confirmed at release.

No selling point for me as a gamer.
CDR projekt did their job.
Contrary to some crowdfunded projects that keep getting protected while using methods that stink much more than what CDR has done.

That is the crux of the issue here: introducing lying as a bad practice, why not? Then it should be castigated every time. Not on double standards as it is happening.
People on this site gave a free pass to Bethesda, crowdfunded projects are constantly protected with in some cases, locked threads and people invited to move their critics elsewhere.

As it appears now, lying is not bad for developpers. It is only bad when the likes of CDR projekt do it.
 
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I will just be repeating myself forever in this thread, all your arguments i've been over already so many times.

I follow a lot of games, i'm very interested in "next-gen" graphics so i tend to follow that very closely. It's very rare that a developer lies in the way CDPR did here (see my numerous examples, again, i will not repeat myself any more).

And no, you arent following interviews and watching screenshots and videos just for the sake of being fooled in the end. Yes, that sometimes happens and no developer gets away with such behavior.

Some years ago a developer even used CGI and said it was gameplay, they got tons of shit for that, and still do and they deserve that because it's not fair. You can use such tricks to get awards (before release) and then produly show "best graphics award E3" on the cover of your game, just plain wrong, CDPR knows how this works and used it to their advantage, doesnt matter that they release good games, it's still wrong. You're absolutely cluless if you think everyone gets aways with it except for CDPR.

Bethesda was not given a free pass, Dark Souls 2 was not given a free pass. Obviously no developer deserves that if they advertise a game with graphics that they know will not be in the final game. If they lie even just 1-2 days before the release date, that's even worse, if they start blaming the fans, then wow.. no, that's unheard of i would say, again i'd like to see examples otherwise. CDPR handled this in the worst possible way.
 
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I will just be repeating myself forever in this thread, all your arguments i've been over already so many times.

Oh the irony!
 
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I will just be repeating myself forever in this thread, all your arguments i've been over already so many times.

I follow a lot of games, i'm very interested in "next-gen" graphics so i tend to follow that very closely. It's very rare that a developer lies in the way CDPR did here (see my numerous examples, again, i will not repeat myself any more).

And no, you arent following interviews and watching screenshots and videos just for the sake of being fooled in the end. Yes, that sometimes happens and no developer gets away with such behavior.
People are not fooled: they are given what they want. Material to fancy over.

Bethesda did the same for Skyrim, up to release. They keep promoting game features that did not make it in the game. One was the dragon behavioural AI that went flushed out. Dragons were a big selling point.
They are not the only ones actually. Far from it. To find better practictioners, it only takes to look at the crowdfunded scene. Crowdfunded projects bury Bethesda, bury CDR Projekt...
Some years ago a developer even used CGI and said it was gameplay, they got tons of shit for that, and still do and they deserve that because it's not fair. You can use such tricks to get awards (before release) and then produly show "best graphics award E3" on the cover of your game, just plain wrong, CDPR knows how this works and used it to their advantage, doesnt matter that they release good games, it's still wrong. You're absolutely cluless if you think everyone gets aways with it except for CDPR.
Never wrote that everyone gets away with it.
I'd write though that CDR never got away with stuff like that. It was announced on this site that people would jump at any opportunity to try and drown their release period.
What is happening is not surprising, it is expected. Had nothing to do with CDR practices, people in this case would have no longer time on their hand when facing the tasks brought by the crowdfunded scene. And they would probably give a free pass to CDR as they would have no time to complain about CDR.

Bethesda was not given a free pass
Where?
Here is a link to show that CDR projekt is not being given a pass on this site.
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28891
It is going to be hard to find one equivalent for SKyrim and the features that went missing while being marketed to release date.

Bethesda was given a free pass on Skyrim, people hardly mentioned the features they omitted to include.
 
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Bethesda was given a free pass on Skyrim, people hardly mentioned the features they omitted to include.
Because people had a more important thing to discuss.
Bugs.
 
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I follow a lot of games, i'm very interested in "next-gen" graphics so i tend to follow that very closely. It's very rare that a developer lies in the way CDPR did here (see my numerous examples, again, i will not repeat myself any more).

…CDPR knows how this works and used it to their advantage, doesnt matter that they release good games, it's still wrong.

Bethesda was not given a free pass, Dark Souls 2 was not given a free pass. Obviously no developer deserves that if they advertise a game with graphics that they know will not be in the final game. …CDPR handled this in the worst possible way.
Vurt and I are perhaps not your average gamer, not even your average PC gamer. We obviously both care about graphical fidelity. And we both take it pretty seriously when a developer knowingly deceives their customers.

CDPR can say they didn't "lie" or do wrong, but as vurt said, there is just no way CDPR didn't know that constantly repeating the "there will be no downgrade" slogan was a lie. When CDPR's art guy says the downgrade was just optimization, that insults my intelligence.

Anyway, I'll play and surely love Witcher 3. I'm not in the insane boycott group or the insane ignore false marketing group. I'm in the "support the developer because they made a great game but also pay a reduced price to show I don't approve of marketing lies" group. Phew…
 
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Vurt and I are perhaps not your average gamer, not even your average PC gamer. We obviously both care about graphical fidelity. And we both take it pretty seriously when a developer knowingly deceives their customers.
Since when gamers care about graphics? Oh, since gaming is not about gameplay though..
CDPR can say they didn't "lie" or do wrong, but as vurt said, there is just no way CDPR didn't know that constantly repeating the "there will be no downgrade" slogan was a lie. When CDPR's art guy says the downgrade was just optimization, that insults my intelligence.
That is 303 posts too many to claim the insult on one's intelligence. People who cant stand insults on their intelligence do not come to this site.

What's happened to the story "it is all subjective", up, down, that should be all subjective. If that guy wants to see the move they made as something different from a downgrade, that is all up to him to tell and get his point accepted by people for who it is all subjective.
Why, suddenly, this guy not allowed what many others on this site allow themselves in?
Downgrade, upgrade, optimization, all subjective.
Anyway, I'll play and surely love Witcher 3. I'm not in the insane boycott group or the insane ignore false marketing group. I'm in the "support the developer because they made a great game but also pay a reduced price to show I don't approve of marketing lies" group. Phew…
That would be nothing insane in boycotting the product.
Video products are scheduled to be sold at a lesser price. There is no loss when a customer buys on a discount as the offer was not designed to be bought at full price by that customer.

At the bottomline, there are players who might buy the product from the only fact it seems cheap enough.
That shows how much the expectations toward the product are taken into account.

The only loss they know is when people do not buy.
Buying when the price corresponds with the target audience selling point means no loss for them.
People never loss money when they sell products at people they aim to sell it at the price they want to sell it.
 
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It's not about what to call it, downgrade, optimization.. After the release CDPR have admitted they changed the graphics and that there was disappointment even among those who works there.

These are some of the facts (repeating myself for the 500th time, but what can you do..)

1) they continued to show images where they used the older and better rendering engine, even 2 years after it was abandoned.

2) they showed these superior looking images and videos and said that the final game would look even better. When it was finally out in the open that it didn't they blamed it on their fans, said that they were comparing an unfinished product to the final game (when it was them who started this).

I can name numerous other things that they've said about the game that are just not true.. just some examples, they bragged about how the game would have zero fetch quests, that's absolutely not true. They claim Novigrad have 5000 working doors. Yeah right. Some of the things these people say are hard to believe they come from grown up people.

But let's skip that, let me just ask you one simple question that i'd really like to know; exactly what are you defending here? What good comes out of defending a developer that lies again and again? Do you think their next game will be better if they get away with all this bullshit? I'm curious.

Since when gamers care about graphics? Oh, since gaming is not about gameplay though..

A game is graphics, audio, scripts, A.I and many other elements that together forms a game and the experience itself.

It's like saying that the way a movie is filmed doesn't matter to the movie or how it is experienced, or that it wouldn't matter which instruments or singer was used for certain song, as long as the melody was the same.
 
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After a few days I'm onto the game, without possibility to turn everything on ultra and whatnot (GTX 760 here), I'll say a few things. Just an opinion.

1. The game looks georgeous even without fancy stuff, IMO The Witcher 3 has best visuals I've seen in a game. Any game. Except the water, but it's still good enough and in certain weather conditions it looks like an oil painting which I actually adore.
One might comment Order 1886 is better in that department, but I can't agree, I just don't like the overall scenery design there, perhaps it's a matter of tastes.

2. For whatever reason people call the final game a downgrade. From what I've read it looks to me as a code rewritten from scratch, a different engine. I've also stated elsewhere, never really expected this game to produce AutoCAD rendered visuals.
Can't understand why some people are trying to persuade others into believing that the game was supposed to look like Avatar CGI and now looks as Playstation 1 game. It's just not true.

3. Vurt and some others are fixed on statements made by some CDprojekt employee. According to them, the game sucks because one guy from CDpr posted the wrong info. I just fail to see any logic in this. The guy is perhaps blind to see any difference, perhaps didn't understand the question, perhaps just didn't care and perhaps someone else inside CDpr lied to him in the first place. I believe that person has an e-mail address publically known or social networks account. Instead of raging over his statements and trolling everywhere, contact him directly. Failing that, I believe CDpr has CEO.

4. The final product is so polished, interesting and causes addiction it looks to me that this so called downgrade is the only thing left to "have problem with" for people with occupation: crybaby.
This game actually has only one problem. It is a social life killer. If you're in the middle of something, business, friendship, love or other stuff, stay away from TW3!

Unlike many here, I'm the one with actual graphics downgrade experience with Watch Dogs. I'm also the one with actual overall downgrade experience with Assassins Creed Unity.
Seeing all these spits on CDprojekt makes me sad. Because, unlike Ubi, who failed more than once, CDpr delivered.

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3. Vurt and some others are fixed on statements made by some CDprojekt employee. According to them, the game sucks because one guy from CDpr posted the wrong info. I just fail to see any logic in this.

I'm pretty sure Vurt and co have been clear that the game is good, despite their concerns.
 
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I've never said the graphics arent good or that the game sucks. But i guess lying isn't a huge problem for someone who worships a lying developer?

For some of us the world isn't black and white. I have no problem saying TW3 is a great game and at the same time saying CDPR are assholes and that they did many wrong things and keeps doing them to make them even worse.

There are numerous artists, actors, producers, famous painters that do or did absolutely great things but had asshole personalities and behaved in absolutely inexcusable ways. I don't see a point in defending such behavior, no matter if they did a great song, game or whatever they did.

A "crybaby" is your typical fanboy who worships his band or his game developer as a god and whenever someone says something bad about him (even if what he claims is true) the fanboy can't stand it and have to come to resucue. It's sweet but also very immature. Eventually you'll grow up, hopefully.

Edit: also it's not "one guy from CDPR", these guys are the developes themselves. You have for example one of their visual artists here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU9rlkCOk9E
 
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