Fallout 4 - The C in S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

C stands for Charisma in Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system and is the next video in the series.

In today's chapter we focus on Charisma to help you better understand how to negotiate your way out of danger with unsavory characters and earn the trust of your fellow Wasteland inhabitants.

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More information.

Bah, Charisma helping to avoid the perils of addiction? That's just silly talk. Having this come under Endurance would make a lot more sense.

This makes me remember Oblivion's "an axe is a blunt weapon" phenomenon.

I can't say I particularly care for these videos: They're too overtly self-aware and not in the least bit funny. /grumpy fallout fan mode off.

I agree that they're placing some of these advantages in seemingly odd places. That said, I don't really know what they mean by avoiding the "perils of addiction". If they're talking about the associated perks - then I guess one "Social" rank perk could mean you have friends to talk you out of addiction. That might work.

I think the videos are charming, though.

FO4 seems to introduce a lot of situations, a lot of ways to do.

Wonder how many types of characters can make it.

Pessimeister said:

Bah, Charisma helping to avoid the perils of addiction? That's just silly talk. Having this come under Endurance would make a lot more sense.

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Much more sense relatively to what? They do not say resisting hang overs.

They say the perils of addiction. That means the repeated use of addictive substances.
Addictive substances that are used to ease bargaining.
What PC is likely to rely on repeated bargaining situations to make it? The high endurance PC or the high charisma PC?
This is as self evident as the rights declared in the US declaration of independence.
Ummm, on that one, it may be more self evident.

Bethesa is on the line of their definition stuff. They cling to it.

ChienAboyeur said:

Wonder how many types of characters can make it.

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Don't wonder too hard - it's a Bethesda game. Most if not all types of characters (in as much as there are "types" anymore) will be viable.

ChienAboyeur said:

Much more sense relatively to what? They do not say resisting hang overs.

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Uh, yes they do. Go and have a look at the perk tiers on the recent character system youtube clip. You'll find that tier 7 of Charisma is "Party Boy". This perk removes any chance your character may get addicted to alcohol. So no more hang overs.

Again, I'm saying that this would logically make more sense if it were tied to the endurance tier (i.e to make it like shedding a physical ailment) than to charisma. It's a fairly straight forward argument.

Your generalisation on what types of characters are more likely to use addictive drugs simply does not follow. There are all kinds of reasons, (not just to ease bargaining as you say) but for personal role-playing and for combat (more AP!) that a character might indulge in that side of things. Buffout, Psycho, Rebound, Turbo, Jet…they all have their own uses for different reasons which isn't limited to character type.

I remember scoffing whiskey in F3 just to raise my strength and equipment load limit!

Pessimeister said:

Don't wonder too hard - it's a Bethesda game. Most if not all types of characters (in as much as there are "types" anymore) will be viable.

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Bethesda does narrative gaming. As a consequence, they smoothen elements that might go against building a narrative.

They have shown though a will to define their characters. For Skyrim, their efforts were destroyed by players (as players reject definition in character)
Bethesda took notice and since they have not dropped the idea of defining, they might have found other ways.

Uh, yes they do. Go and have a look at the perk tiers on the recent character system youtube clip. You'll find that tier 7 of Charisma is "Party Boy". This perk removes any chance your character may get addicted to alcohol. So no more hang overs.

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Hang over might mean the state following the state of drunkenness (the euphory caused by alcohol) Hang over symptoms might be a troubled mind, dizziness, tiredness going up to loss of conscience (falling asleep)
Hangover symptoms might last several hours and still be there when waking up.
The video shows hangover symptoms and stipulate it cant be avoided.

This is only semantic talks.
What is known is that the PC might drink addictive drinks, the PC might drink them up to provoking unavoidable effects.

The perk is indeed level 7. It means that players must spend points in charisma to get there and that their character (in this case) is eligible for what could be defined as a high level charisma character.

The addictiveness feature is not expected to remove the unavoidable effects. It is expected to define the charismatic character.

Only the high charisma character can drink without turning into an addict.

The other characters might want to behave as if they were high charisma character, the price they pay is they get addicted and must drink regularly or suffer effects of severage.

High charisma PCs rely on charisma to make it. It is normal that they get this kind of trade off as they are going to repeat the sequence over and over again.

Using drinks to ease is reserved territory to the high charisma PC. They can do it regularly when the others cant.

High endurance characters are not expected to rely on charisma to make it. They might try their luck at situations related to, if they do it too often (that is if they are played as if they were high charisma), they must pay a counterpart to it.

A gameplay feature to help definition in character.

Again, I'm saying that this would logically make more sense if it were tied to the endurance tier (i.e to make it like shedding a physical ailment) than to charisma. It's a fairly straight forward argument.

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It is a fairly straight forward argument that remains illogical given the context.
Actually, it goes against the objective of preventing attributes from leaking one in another.
Endurance would leak into charisma: a high endurance PC could behave the same way as a high charisma PC.

Uh, yes they do. Go and have a look at the perk tiers on the recent character system youtube clip. You'll find that tier 7 of Charisma is "Party Boy". This perk removes any chance your character may get addicted to alcohol. So no more hang overs.

Again, I'm saying that this would logically make more sense if it were tied to the endurance tier (i.e to make it like shedding a physical ailment) than to charisma. It's a fairly straight forward argument.

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I'm not sure I agree.

Let's assume Charisma makes you more appealing to people, and I think it's reasonable to assume you'd be invited to more parties.

It's not that far fetched to assume that means your character has a lot more experience with alchohol and how to avoid the dangers of it - including what to drink and what not to drink, what to mix and what not to mix.

Endurance is more about physical fitness, to me anyway - and physical fitness doesn't really help in any way to combat the psychological aspects of staying away from alchohol or avoiding the detrimental effects during a hangover.

Anyway, I think a reasonable case can be made for both stats - even though it's all somewhat abstract and doesn't really have anything to do with how things work in reality.

Pessimeister said:

Your generalisation on what types of characters are more likely to use addictive drugs simply does not follow. There are all kinds of reasons, (not just to ease bargaining as you say) but for personal role-playing and for combat (more AP!) that a character might indulge in that side of things. Buffout, Psycho, Rebound, Turbo, Jet…they all have their own uses for different reasons which isn't limited to character type.

I remember scoffing whiskey in F3 just to raise my strength and equipment load limit!

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The thing with personal "role play" is that it is unknown to devs when they implement the game. They cant take it into account as they do not know what each player means by that.

PCs of all kind but high charisma PCs will be able to indulge in that side of things, except they do it as PCs who are not high charisma PCs and therefore are exposed to dangers a high charisma PC wont experience (as long as the perk is acquired)

Behaviours might be accessible to anyone. The difference between PCs (and the definition of each type) is the risk associated to a repeated pattern.

Just like a high charisma PC can use repeatedly drinks to make it at little cost, a high endurance PC can eat corrupted food at little cost.

One character can do what the other does, one takes more risks than the other.

In the end, this drives players to play their characters as they are. Instead of playing the high endurance PC as it was a high charisma PC, players will play it as a high endurance PC, favouring behaviours associated to endurance. Now and then, they will go a different way but not so many times they could play against the character.

It might introduce deep differences betweeen PCs and their ways of doing: high endurance, self reliant in terms of food and water, high charisma, reliant on society etc

Dont think so this kind of features will last long after release as players will petition to get them neutered.
When the modding scene is monetized, a mod removing those features will be the millions download sales.