Pagan and Christian Holidays: The Discussion (Child of the Happy Yule thread)

Glyphwright

Emanation of Tranquility
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Oh wow, what do you know, the "Pagan/Witch/WiccaWizard" community has a holiday almost on the same day as Christmas. What a coincidence.
 
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Oh wow, what do you know, the "Pagan/Witch/WiccaWizard" community has a holiday almost on the same day as Christmas. What a coincidence.

Since the Pagan Winter Solstice celebration pre-dates the christians by thousands of years (and the holiday modern pagans holidays are based on) you are welcome for the holiday. Oh and where today's deco comes from the tree, garland, wreath and mistletoe, the German pagans used that in celebrating the winter solstice.

If you really want to get technical, history wise, the man Jesus wasn't born on the 25th. Most biblical scholars agree it was late spring/early summer. That date was chosen by the church because it is easier to convert the pagans if your holiday was near theirs.

None the less, Happy Yule all and thanks for the kind words! Have a safe and fun new years as well!
 
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I thought anime overdose was annoying, but by golly, at least you know your RPGs, provide the most helpful links, have a good taste in dungeon crawlers and make great Let's Plays.

And most importantly I have never seen you wish anyone a "happy Yule"

This place is nuts man. Girl. I tell you. Let's bail as soon as possible.
 
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Somehow I doubt the Scandinavians would appreciate their Christmas Celebrations being appropriated by Neopagans.

My this forum is quite touchy about phrasing isn't it?
 
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Because there's nothing more credible than Wikipedia… :)

I am not a fan of it myself but in this case it is pretty accurate. Google search will easily show independent credible links as well to the source of the holiday and how the xians took it over.
 
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xians. How cute.
 
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Somehow I doubt the Scandinavians would appreciate their Christmas Celebrations being appropriated by Neopagans.

My this forum is quite touchy about phrasing isn't it?

Kind of how the pagan celebrations were appropriated by the church?

Also Yule has a lot of German influence as well not just the Scandinavians. Plus what exactly is the issue, celebrating their holidays? Whole point of the Neopagan movement to reconstruct the pagan holidays/beliefs.
 
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@ Harlequin

Most cultures have had a Midwinter Festival of some kind, and the correspondences are mostly constant across the board. The same can be said of Samhain and the others, yup.

However, and this is the point i'm, in a very civil way, trying to get to, don't you think it may come as, maybe and just maybe, slightly pretentious to refer to the festivals by their old names when we aren't holding the festivals in the way those names meant? One way or another, no matter how serious we are about holding them, we lack the proper context, cultural and social, to see in them the same meanings and the same powers. So why not just call them, say, x-mass, haloween, and the rest? Their modern names are as devoid of meaning, for us, as the old ones, but at least the modern ones don't come as, uhm, attention not-whoring-but-almost?

In the end the modern names still mark a date, and we aren't insulting those who hold the old names and their true, deep meanings dear by appropriating those for our own use.

Gee, it's really hard to speak the Watch tongue.
 
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How come no one mentions our holidays? Bet they have about the same significance now

not surprising that Harlequinn dislikes religion, smart, grown up guy that he is

edit: I can't say butthurt or childish here, can I? Anyway, no damage done
 
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@ Harlequin

Most cultures have had a Midwinter Festival of some kind, and the correspondences are mostly constant across the board. The same can be said of Samhain and the others, yup.

However, and this is the point i'm, in a very civil way, trying to get to, don't you think it may come as, maybe and just maybe, slightly pretentious to refer to the festivals by their old names when we aren't holding the festivals in the way those names meant?

I rather be pretentious then be a hypocrite and cheerfully repeat a lie and pretend it is fact/truth. The man Jesus was not born on the 25th any more he rose from the dead on Easter (the spring equinox pagan festival called Ostra) both dates were chosen by the church several centuries after the alleged events took place. The Equinox, Solstice are real, tangible events. So Forgive me if I want to go old school and prefer not to celebrate a fictitious holiday. But that's just me.
 
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@ Harlequin

But we are hypocrites either way. If we say, like, merry christmas we are being so, sure. But if we say happy yule we are being the same, because we are not truly celebrating yule, we are not feeling the true yule, uhm, thingie. In the end we are hypocrites either way, that's the weight we carry for being the lost daughters and sons of the old traditions in a time and place where the traditions are almost dead and buried. By using the modern names, though, we are at least respecting those who came before us and knew yule, and felt yule, and lived yule.

We are not them.

We are mostly an improvised bunch trying to rediscover the wheel amidst a world that has forgotten what we are and what we mean. At least us should respect the past, instead of turning it into another modern parody of what once was.
 
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How come no one mentions our holidays? Bet they have about the same significance now

not surprising that Harlequinn dislikes religion, smart, grown up guy that he is

edit: I can't say butthurt or childish here, can I? Anyway, no damage done

Shows how little you know me and how quickly you jump to conclusions. I dislike religion and I celebrate a pagan holiday? For the record I am a ordained Wiccan Reverend via a local Pagan Church who has legally handfasted (married) couples. But yes, I 'dislike' religion.

Let me help you so you stop grasping at straws, "Harlequin dislikes most major organized religions as he feels they cause more harm then good as history has shown."
 
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I rather be pretentious then be a hypocrite and cheerfully repeat a lie and pretend it is fact/truth. The man Jesus was not born on the 25th any more he rose from the dead on Easter (the spring equinox pagan festival called Ostra) both dates were chosen by the church several centuries after the alleged events took place. The Equinox, Solstice are real, tangible events. So Forgive me if I want to go old school and prefer not to celebrate a fictitious holiday. But that's just me.

Ah... the irony. :)
 
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