Skyrim Skyrim - Paid Mod Status Update(Re-Opened)

All we can hope is that a lot of modding talent will move en masse to games whose developers don't try to make a profit grab on the backs of others. Smaller studios, possibly. I could be wrong, but I don't see CD Projekt Red doing this, or Larian. Based on CDPR's history, I can even see them condemning the move, especially since they released their assets for free to the community, and now someone could make money off them. Maybe if CDPR makes their game editor easy enough to use, their assets easy enough to modify, mod enthusiasts could move to games like Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin to make their perfect characters and play their ideal adventures. That's if CDPR will even make their W3 assets free, now.

It gives me a sick feeling in my stomach to imagine that Cyberpunk 2077 may not support easy modding now, after this debacle.

Well, I'm pretty much with Nerevarine and his thoughts posted two pages back. I'm not opposed to modders charging for their work, if they choose to, but I cannot support this system as it stands. 75% to Steam? Valve lawyers already contacting authors of existing mods to inform them they have no rights over its future?

The end of an era. I suppose it was inevitable. The modern-day parasites — lawyers — have already descended. They won't kill their hosts, just leave them tainted and, sometimes, diseased. Innocence lost to the unceasing march of The Almighty Dollar.

I've been a fan of the Steam Workshop, but I think I'll walk on past the new Steam Sweatshop.

SonOfCapiz said:

Someone on the official mod forums reported that one mod actually has in game pop-up ads in its free version that you can pay to remove. Thanks to Steam and Bethesda for bringing free mobile gaming goodness to PC.

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In-game ads.... wow, how immersive it is...

Aubrielle said:

All we can hope is that a lot of modding talent will move en masse to games whose developers don't try to make a profit grab on the backs of others. Smaller studios, possibly. I could be wrong, but I don't see CD Projekt Red doing this, or Larian. Based on CDPR's history, I can even see them condemning the move, especially since they released their assets for free to the community, and now someone could make money off them. Maybe if CDPR makes their game editor easy enough to use, their assets easy enough to modify, mod enthusiasts could move to games like Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin to make their perfect characters and play their ideal adventures. That's if CDPR will even make their W3 assets free, now.

It gives me a sick feeling in my stomach to imagine that Cyberpunk 2077 may not support easy modding now, after this debacle.

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Aubrielle, if CDPR releases TW3 Redkit early on, giving modders opportunity to mod TW3 as soon as possible (opposed to TW2, whose Redkit was released 2 years later) then I can bet Cyberpunk 2077's modding scene will be supported by CDPR as well.

vurt said:

He didn't since the mod wasn't validated.. But i guess it's a sign of what's to come for me and other modders, we'll have to check that people aren't using our resources to sell. This could be a legal nightmare for Valve / Bethesda..

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It's pretty gdamn ridiculous that the only person allowed to file a piracy report is a mod author. Valve opened the floodgates to scammers and it's suddenly someone else's responsibility to plug the holes for all time?

It makes a mod author simply want to boycott Valve altogether… but can they? No, they have to monitor for pirated content. Complete exploitative bullshit.

SonOfCapiz said:

Someone on the official mod forums reported that one mod actually has in game pop-up ads in its free version that you can pay to remove. Thanks to Steam and Bethesda for bringing free mobile gaming goodness to PC.

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This is truly a shame. And thanks to Apple for showing us the way.

I've been having an interesting exchange with a well-known [Fallout] modder. He pointed out something that I had not considered:

Me:
Just gotta see how it all pans out. Nevertheless, longterm, I just don't have much faith for the overall health of modding, especially substantial projects. Why bother with a large overhaul when the deck is stacked against you in terms of piracy concerns; instead, you can release a couple dozen piecemeal mods for 99 cents apiece. This all has a great deal of similarity with inundation of the iOS gamespace with shallow, throwaway titles.

If I were the dreaming type, I'd say that Fallout's standout modders should band together and boycott the Workshop altogether; people such as yourself, WJS, gribble, Luth, Jip, Millenia, etc.. But, even with such efforts, the fear of privacy is always there; Steam's simply gotta step up to the plate and actually use some of that 75% to monitor content, rather than sitting back and collecting cash for doing next to nothing.

Other guy:
Well s***, we are living the exact situation that actual game developers had to go through. Why bother developing good and complete games if people will buy DLCs and other pandering s*** without making any fuss …

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Haha, I got a chuckle out of that… bring on the Early Access beta mods!

I'm also looking to CDPR's redkit. They've already said it'll be coming much sooner than last time, and they'd be crazy not to capitalize on this mess

Drithius said:

It's pretty gdamn ridiculous that the only person allowed to file a piracy report is a mod author. Valve opened the floodgates to scammers and it's suddenly someone else's responsibility to plug the holes for all time?

It makes a mod author simply want to boycott Valve altogether… but can they? No, they have to monitor for pirated content. Complete exploitative bullshit.

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Wait, what? Can you explain that? I'm not clear on the mechanics of their DMCA notice process.

Regardless of their implemented system, under US law you have every right to file your own Cease and Desist letter under the same DMCA terms with Valve legal. If someone's thievery is torquing a modder off enough, I don't think it should cost all that much to do.

Ripper said:

I'm also looking to CDPR's redkit. They've already said it'll be coming much sooner than last time, and they'd be crazy not to capitalize on this mess

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Well they have never been a company so far to capitalize ..... best guessed numbers are 4.5 million copies of the Witcher 2 download illegally and the new one is silly going to be DRM free.

Bedwyr said:

Wait, what? Can you explain that? I'm not clear on the mechanics of their DMCA notice process.

Regardless of their implemented system, under US law you have every right to file your own Cease and Desist letter under the same DMCA terms with Valve legal. If someone's thievery is torquing a modder off enough, I don't think it should cost all that much to do.

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The real point is it should cost them anything if it had been just left the way it was.

Moriendor said:

It'd be way too risky with a new game. That's why they picked Skyrim as their guinea pig. The game has a huge established modding community and has made both companies metric shittons of money. A perfect target to test the waters.
Depending on how this shakes out, they can still backpedal for FO4 or go full steam (pun alert!) ahead with some amendments.

I don't think there is a full way back anymore though. The concept must be way too tempting for Valve and publishers of moddable games. They will easily make a few millions on the side from mod microtransactions. Imagine something like SkyUI would have been only available as a paid mod for $2.99 from the start. That one alone would have made them a couple of millions. Or SKSE as the base req for many mods. More millions.
I would also bet real money that they will make must-have mods in-house in the future and undercover-publish them as John Doe. So, yeah, that Mona Lisa pic is unfortunately depicting the cold, harsh truth.

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This is exactly my issue with paid mods. SkyUI is a mod aimed at improving Skyrim's UI making it easier to use with mouse and keyboard. Bethesda profiting from this mod is insulting. They make an unoptimized console UI then monetize on someone else's work of fixing something that should never have been broken in the first place.

The ownwer of the Nexus sites has another post about being a Steam service provider.

Link - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?

Couchpotato said:

The ownwer of the Nexus sites has anorther post about being a Steam service provider.

Link - http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?

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No problem there. He's being upfront. And I'll take his advice and pull back my judgment that this will do horrible things to the Skyrim community. I'm less optimistic than he is, but I'll accept those mod withdrawal numbers as indicative of a wait-and-see mood.

Yup..

DarkOne said:

The finger pointing has begun. Pointing the finger at Valve, at Bethesda, at modders, at the Nexus, at YouTubers. Have you really not seen this coming, at all? Evolve launching with $100 worth of day zero DLC? Buying games knowing the developers have said they won't release SDK's any more because it's "too hard"? Paying money to beta test games in Early Access? Pre-ordering games based on hype despite the developers and publishers enacting review embargoes? Users spending $220 million plus on mods already for TF2, CSGO and DotA 2? Of course this was coming. Anyone who's done any of these things has been complicit in getting us to this stage! I'll put my hand up and admit I bought DayZ stand-alone. I'm sorry, alright, I didn't realise they were going to be this bad and take this long!

The worry is with the introduction of Curated Workshops that free and open modding will be removed entirely, as in, it just won't be possible to do. You've seen the arguments before with developers like BioWare and DICE no longer supporting modding with their games, they say it's because it's too complicated for modders or because they don't have time to work on the tools, many users argue it's because they don't want mods to cut in to DLC sales. I don't know any more about it than you in that regard, but if you're running a curated modding marketplace and there's a site out there with lots of mods available for free (note: probably not the same mods, as that wouldn't make sense!) will you willingly let that continue or would you try to ensure all your mods were going through your curated marketplace? I guess it would entirely depend on the developer and publisher in question, but if you ask me, my main concern now is the DRMification and closing down of free and open modding, the concept that modding can only take place if it's done through one official platform to the detriment of all others. Because up until now that's definitely not what modding has been about at all.

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Ah, yes - mod DRM. That'll be marvellous.

Ripper said:

Ah, yes - mod DRM. That'll be marvellous.

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Ugh. Gaming as we know it is likely about to change. I don't see Valve or Bethesda backtracking on this.

After further contemplation, I have another thought: game stability. My last playthrough of Skyrim featured a lot of mods. I took the time to learn how to make bashed patches, manually check my load order, etc. and my game was relatively stable. I did run into some technical issues, however; this is no fault of Bethesda or the game engine, as I had pushed Skyrim well beyond what it was originally designed to handle, and it was bursting at the seams. I am perfectly willing to tolerate these sorts of issues when mods are free. But if I had paid money for mods, I would not be willing to tolerate any such issues whatsoever; at that point, the expectations would be much higher.

Maybe it would be better if I was forced into being more selective with what mods I used rather than picking everything even slightly interesting, and I would end up with a much more stable game. But that should be my choice, based purely on personal preference rather than money.

It's perfectly fine for those who are able to donate to modders as a thank you - were I in a better financial situation, I would certainly donate to a lot more free content that I enjoy (such as this site). But part of the beauty of mods and volunteer projects is that profit and becoming rich isn't the primary motivation, or even a motivation at all. Any money donated is a gift, a sign of appreciation and respect rather than a business venture.

I foresee this becoming a mandatory system in the future. As we all know, people love to complain about these sorts of practices, yet many lack the self-discipline to actually boycott with their wallets. So many people are simply too addicted to their hobbies to take a stand. Like I said before, modding will continue to be a bright spot of PC gaming, but the dynamics will be quite different, and the spirit will decay, evolving into an entirely different atmosphere.

I never thought I would say this, but if this system becomes mandatory, I will not be purchasing another Bethesda game. Seeing as how they have made some of my all-time favorite games, this is quite sad for me. But I do have principles, and I like to think that I have the self-discipline to simply spend my time and money on other hobby outlets rather than support a system that I personally find unjust or unappealing. I simply cannot justify in my head or my heart a system that enforces non-optional payments for amateur, user-made content, regardless of quality. Donations of the user's free will are one thing; this is another matter entirely.

I tried to follow some of the story in the Steam fora but it requires much more patience than my 40+ year old self can muster. Sometimes I swear I feel that the internet is consisting entirely of entitled 15 year olds.

It seems that as long as there is “free stuff” to enjoy there is comradery abundant for the people that provide it, but alas, should some of the creators decide that their work should be compensated then the entitled “community” will feast on their greedy corpses.

On a general note, I also always wonder, are (adult) people really that alienated from reality and free market? No one works as a freelancer, or as an aspiring entrepreneur or, at least WORK somewhere in the REAL WORLD? Because from the comments (strangely and sadly in here too) that does not seem to be the case. I am truly perplexed by the internet drama that has spawned from this (yeah, I know, I shouldn’t be surprised by anything by now...)

vurt said:

He didn't since the mod wasn't validated.. But i guess it's a sign of what's to come for me and other modders, we'll have to check that people aren't using our resources to sell. This could be a legal nightmare for Valve / Bethesda..

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Vurt, what if someone else rips off another mod but has managed to sell a few copies of it before the real author knows about it? Do you know if there's anything to be done about it or does the thief get away with the money?

sibroc said:

I tried to follow some of the story in the Steam fora but it requires much more patience than my 40+ year old self can muster. Sometimes I swear I feel that the internet is consisting entirely of entitled 15 year olds.

It seems that as long as there is “free stuff” to enjoy there is comradery abundant for the people that provide it, but alas, should some of the creators decide that their work should be compensated then the entitled “community” will feast on their greedy corpses.

On a general note, I also always wonder, are (adult) people really that alienated from reality and free market? No one works as a freelancer, or as an aspiring entrepreneur or, at least WORK somewhere in the REAL WORLD? Because from the comments (strangely and sadly in here too) that does not seem to be the case. I am truly perplexed by the internet drama that has spawned from this (yeah, I know, I shouldn’t be surprised by anything by now…)

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I agree there are those who simply want free stuff, but from what I see, most of those against this paid model are *not* at all against mod authors getting compensation. Mod authors themselves have spoken out against it so its not just a simple matter of free stuff vs just compensation.