Expectations for President Obama

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Then you're wrong, seeing as how you've yet to give any statistics on what % of people in prison are "unfairly punished". It does far less damage to our society than what corrupt business practices do. Trillions lost - that's thousands upon thousands of jobs, retirement funds, pensions, etc: you know, stuff that has lasting effects upon virtually all aspects of society.

I guess that's where I differ from you. I don't always subscribe to the "greater good" when individual rights are being trampled upon.

Rithrandil said:
Well, they were throwing people in jail for decades for breaking the law, but if you mean other then that, they were the same place your party was, buddy

Wrong again. The reps were in power for 8 years, while the Dems had little to no control. So don't try to shift the blame for the massive Rep mess they made of the country. We have only the righties to thank for the continued deregulation during the Bush years, and well as the gutting and emasculation of federal agencies responsible for oversight. Not to mention the piss poor oversight job of Republican controlled congressional committees.

Righties says that big government doesn't work, then they get in power and prove it through poor management.

Rithrandil said:
I don't know what this means, but if you're trying to say punishing the CEOs after they commit a crime is "too little too late", then I think you have the real world confused with Minority Report.

I think you could figure this out if your mind wasn't clouded by your emotional state of denial that 8 years of Republican rule has been a major disaster for the country.

txa1265 · July 23, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Happened about four or five pages ago, and the Republican Party one about twelve pages ago, lol.

It is sad ... working together and listening is what is needed throughout ... not all of this destructive politics. I feel really old remembering when politicians would be bitter rivals shouting at each others and then joining each other for a beer and a laugh later ... now it is all just hatred ...

Rithrandil · July 23, 2009

Thrasher said:
I guess that's where I differ from you. I don't always subscribe to the "greater good" when individual rights are being trampled upon.

Well, that and I use numbers and facts and you want to blame every ill that's ever happened on the Republicans because you're not man enough to accept your share of the blame.

Thrasher said:
Wrong again. The reps were in power for 8 years

Six years. Learn to count.

Thrasher said:
while the Dems had little to no control.

So the Dems were incapable of having a press conference? Most of the foundation for this was laid in the 90's when we let corporate greed and corruption get out of control. You know what companies have been the most corrupt? Those founded during that era - all the new shiny tech companies and Citigroup etc etc etc.

Thrasher said:
So don't try to shift the blame for the massive Rep mess they made of the country. We have only the righties to thank for the continued deregulation during the Bush years,

Happened under Clinton, too. I've accepted my party's responsibility in this. You're the one who is too much of a feckless inept intellectual coward to realize that your party is just as responsible.

Thrasher said:
and well as the gutting and emasculation of federal agencies responsible for oversight.

Happened under Clinton, too.

Thrasher said:
Not to mention the piss poor oversight job of Republican controlled congressional committees.

So if you were such a financial and political genius to see this coming, where the hell was your party when it controlled everything for two years? Sitting with their thumbs up their asses? Sorry, but you guys had the rudder for two damn years and could have done SOMETHING to either halt or mitigate the damage during that time, or at least try to warn people during the six previous years. You didn't. And you also like to ignore the fact McCain and Bush tried to push for regulations for Fannie and Freddie and were SHOUTED DOWN. Oh, and Barney Frank's rant on the house floor about how republicans saying those two things were going to fail was "fear mongering". So yeah, take your fair share of the blame too, cupcake.

Thrasher said:
Righties says that big government doesn't work, then they get in power and prove it through poor management.

And lefties say that everyone should get a free ride regardless of circumstance and are bankrupting the country.

Thrasher said:
I think you could figure this out if your mind wasn't clouded by your emotional state of denial that 8 years of Republican rule has been a major disaster for the country.

Yeah, because I'm such a flag-waver for Bush. How about you go back and read things I've said, such as: "I hate Bush" "Bush was an idiot" "I hope the Republicans lose until 2020 or beyond because we deserve to" "I'm officially glad Obama won the election". Yeah, I'm such a right-wing sock puppet! You, on the other hand, have not said one single thing that could not be found in a Michael Moore fan site. So how about you ditch your "emotional state of denial" that insists all Republicans are bloodsucking vampires that hate poor and colored people?

But of course you're too hypocritical and intellectually dishonest to do that. I also find it amusing that you aren't seeming to realize that even the people on your own side here think you are an id - excuse me, since I can't launch personal attacks - think you are seriously uneducated, misinformed, and woefully ignorant troll with no basis of reality only here to stroke your own little ego because you have a bone to pick with Republicans for god only knows why.

Rithrandil · July 23, 2009

txa1265 said:
It is sad ... working together and listening is what is needed throughout ... not all of this destructive politics. I feel really old remembering when politicians would be bitter rivals shouting at each others and then joining each other for a beer and a laugh later ... now it is all just hatred ...

It is sad, and I can quite happily have conversations with Mags or PJ even when we clearly disagree radically on issues, but I have absolutely no reason to extend any courtesy to someone whose first posts were to call me and other Republicans some sort of evil corrupt person who is personally responsible for the death of every poor person or gang member in the country ... not that his future posts have gotten any better. I think he and Oxlar should just argue with each other and leave the rest of us alone, they're roughly equivalent to each other, just on different sides of the aisle.

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Now you're lying.

Rithrandil · July 23, 2009

Thrasher said:
Now you're lying.

Sure I am, buttercup. Whoops, hit send too soon. But it's easy to say that, but I, and others here, have done that with almost everything you've posted, so ... shrug. Say what you want at this point I guess.

For the rest of you, go read about the task force I posted, some interesting stuff there, but there's more work to be done. Interestingly, we're moving towards a "principle-based" rules system for these things, like Europe has, as opposed to the "rules-based" rules system, which allows you to use a bunch of crazy loopholes as opposed to general principles of "Don't fudge numbers". This crisis will probably have a silver lining in that it will help to torpedo the culture of corruption that started in the 90s.

dteowner · July 23, 2009

Thrasher said:
Wrong again. The reps were in power for 8 years, while the Dems had little to no control. So don't try to shift the blame for the massive Rep mess they made of the country. We have only the righties to thank for the continued deregulation during the Bush years, and well as the gutting and emasculation of federal agencies responsible for oversight. Not to mention the piss poor oversight job of Republican controlled congressional committees.

Time for an inconvenient truth:
Control of congress
You will note that Democrats controlled the Senate for half of Dubya's years in office and also had the house for 2.. So, just who passed all those laws you don't like?

Inconvenient truth #2:
Control of congressional committees is determined by the majority party. When the balance of power shifted in each congressional house, committee chairs were lost to the democrats as well.

Better luck next time, champ.

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

dteowner said:
Time for an inconvenient truth:
Control of congress

That doesn't look right to me. Remember this is wikipedia...

And appropriation and staffing of federal agencies is not passing laws. Oversight is not passing laws. Administration of government agencies is not Congress. And a simple majority is not enough to pass laws with obstinate Republican block con voting.

So yeah, it's really not a relevant statistic to quote DTE, even if it were correct, try again....

dteowner · July 23, 2009

txa1265 said:
It is sad ... working together and listening is what is needed throughout ... not all of this destructive politics. I feel really old remembering when politicians would be bitter rivals shouting at each others and then joining each other for a beer and a laugh later ... now it is all just hatred ...

It's only natural for the tone on both sides to get more shrill as the country gets closer and closer to tipping over the edge. There's a whole lot of money (public, private, corporate) hanging in the balance. On the terrorism front, there's lives hanging in the balance. On the economic front, our position at the head of the class and the engine that supports the American lifestyle hang in the balance. That's not hyperbole and has no bearing on anyone's political views. Everywhere you look, the ship is headed for an iceberg. We can't go straight ahead (whether by intent, compromise, or neglect) much longer. That makes for a pretty bloody fight over whether we turn left or right because the status quo is simply unsustainable by any light.

dteowner · July 23, 2009

It's public record, Thrasher. If you don't believe it, check it yourself. Count the names all night long until your heart's content. Quit being an ass every time the facts don't back you up.

Thrasher said:
Wrong again. The reps were in power for 8 years, while the Dems had little to no control. So don't try to shift the blame for the massive Rep mess they made of the country. We have only the righties to thank for the continued deregulation during the Bush years, and well as the gutting and emasculation of federal agencies responsible for oversight. Not to mention the piss poor oversight job of Republican controlled congressional committees.

So then, is control of congress important or not? Either it's important so you can blame us but have to accept blame for your years of control, or it's not important and the above quote is BS. Pick a story and stick with it, champ.

Sorry, Thrasher, but I'm done with you. When you can't even keep your own story straight, intelligent conversation is pointless and using public records to give you repeated atomic wedgies has lost its novelty.

Rithrandil · July 23, 2009

dteowner said:
It's public record, Thrasher. If you don't believe it, check it yourself. Count the names all night long until your heart's content. Quit being an ass every time the facts don't back you up.

So then, is control of congress important or not? Either it's important so you can blame us but have to accept blame for your years of control, or it's not important and the above quote is BS. Pick a story and stick with it, champ.

Sorry, Thrasher, but I'm done with you. When you can't even keep your own story straight, intelligent conversation is pointless and using public records to give you repeated atomic wedgies has lost its novelty.

I think we can put a close to this chapter with this Haiku:

Thrasher, oh so wrong
Logic flows, frozen river
Oxlar of the left

Hey, dte, think I can get some money from the National Endowment of the Arts for that? But seriously, I should have just taken the half dozen PMs of advice I got at after his first message here and just ignored him since he clearly is just here to troll and the like.

Anyways, interesting story: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/22/mexico.immigrants/index.html

Apparently Mexican immigration (I'm guessing illegal?) has dropped by 40%. Good news!

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Since when when is wikipedia "public record"? And calling other people an ass when they disagree with you is being an ass.

Who said "control of congress". I said control. Don't put words in my mouth. Control can be achieved without having a majority in both houses. The administration has a lot of power even without the full support of Congress, especially during wartime, which is what happened for lucky George.

You're being way to literate and missing the forest for the trees.

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Well, that and I use numbers and facts and you want to blame every ill that's ever happened on the Republicans because you're not man enough to accept your share of the blame..

Yes, irrelevant numbers abound, and pointless facts. My share of the blame? So now you are trying to shift blame on me for all the well documented Republican failures? Brilliant.

Rithrandil said:
Happened under Clinton, too. I've accepted my party's responsibility in this. You're the one who is too much of a feckless inept intellectual coward to realize that your party is just as responsible.

Resorting to personal insults because you don't have a leg to stand on I see. "just as responsible". Do you have any proof of that? I doubt it.

Rithrandil said:
McCain and Bush tried to push for regulations for Fannie and Freddie and were SHOUTED DOWN. Oh, and Barney Frank's rant on the house floor about how republicans saying those two things were going to fail was "fear mongering".

OK, I'll give you that, twinkie.

Rithrandil said:
And lefties say that everyone should get a free ride regardless of circumstance and are bankrupting the country.

No. The debt actually went up most during the Bushies control of the country because of reduced taxes and increasing defense spending.

Rithrandil said:
So how about you ditch your "emotional state of denial" that insists all Republicans are bloodsucking vampires that hate poor and colored people?.

Where do come up with this stuff? It doesn't even make sense.

Rithrandil said:
But of course you're too hypocritical and intellectually dishonest to do that. I also find it amusing that you aren't seeming to realize that even the people on your own side here think you are an id - excuse me, since I can't launch personal attacks - think you are seriously uneducated, misinformed, and woefully ignorant troll with no basis of reality only here to stroke your own little ego because you have a bone to pick with Republicans for god only knows why.

More personal attacks. You're truly a class act. And very predictable. It's the usual rightie tactic when all else fails...

dteowner · July 23, 2009

Thrasher said:
You're being way to literate

Thank you so much for this unintentional parting gift. I know it's a typo (you meant "literal", me thinks), but it's been a long, long time since this here anti-intellectual been accused ta bein too long on that there book lernin. :rotfl:

PJ, you ivory tower pinko, where the hell are you? I'm too literate! You gots some apologizin to do, mister. :rotfl:

My sides hurt.

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Oh yes typos are so funny.
There's that odd rightie humor again.

txa1265 · July 23, 2009

I wish I had teh power to lock this silly thread ... or just blow it up ...

Rithrandil · July 23, 2009

Thrasher said:
Yes, irrelevant numbers abound, and pointless facts. My share of the blame? So now you are trying to shift blame on me for all the well documented Republican failures? Brilliant.

Yeah, irrelevant to the drivel that comes out of your mouth and pointless to your "argument", such as it is.

Thrasher said:
Resorting to personal insults because you don't have a leg to stand on I see.

Pot, meet kettle!

Thrasher said:
"just as responsible". Do you have any proof of that? I doubt it.

Name all the Democratic efforts either in the legislature or in terms of news media or press releases warning of this problem and their attempts to halt it. None?

Thrasher said:
OK, I'll give you that, twinkie.

Oh, what's that? You conceded my entire argument that the Republicans tried to do *something* that could have helped tremendously, even half-heartedly, and the Democrats played politics and blocked it?

Thrasher said:
No. The debt actually went up most during the Bushies control of the country because of reduced taxes and increasing defense spending.

Reduced taxes and a recession. "Increasing defense spending" isn't what is going to bankrupt this country, and if you don't understand that you are ... well, utterly wrong, and have no understanding of demographics and the ticking time bombs of medicare, medicaid, and social security.

Thrasher said:
Where do come up with this stuff? It doesn't even make sense.

I know it doesn't make sense, so why do you say things like that?

Thrasher said:
More personal attacks.You're truly a class act. And very predictable. It's the usual rightie tactic when all else fails...

Yeah, and you've been the saint of calm, rational responses. Your first ten posts were a tirade about how Republicans are all evil and attacking me for 'hyperbole' despite the fact that hyperbole makes up the bulk of your "arguments" here. I'm going to give you a list of issues. Tell me where you think I stand on them:

1) Bush - Good president or bad President?
2) Cheney - good or bad?
3) Torture
4) Gay rights
5) Abortion
6) Religion
7) Sarah Palin
8) Barack Obama's foreign policy
9) Iran
10) Guantanamo

I'm guessing you'll get maybe two of the ten right, if that. You have absolutely no idea *what* I stand for. Maybe you should look at the reason why I, and others, personally attack you while we are more than civil amongst ourselves, despite the fact we have severe policy disagreements. Maybe it has to do with the fact you're a troll who loves to torpedo any chance of having a rational discussion because every single one of your posts reads like this:
1) Republicans are evil and greedy and corrupt
2) Defense spending is wasteful
3) Business X is in a conspiracy with Republicans to do Y.

Thrasher · July 23, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Oh, what's that? You conceded my entire argument that the Republicans tried to do *something* that could have helped tremendously, even half-heartedly, and the Democrats played politics and blocked it?

Yes, don't gloat too much. But I wouldn't call it an "argument". I agree with this counterpoint. I don't agree with your contention that the blame should be evenly shared. The righties had most of the control leading up to this mess. With power should come more responsibility, and I didn't see that happen.

Rithrandil said:
Maybe it has to do with the fact you're a troll who loves to torpedo any chance of having a rational discussion because every single one of your posts reads like this:
1) Republicans are evil and greedy and corrupt
2) Defense spending is wasteful
3) Business X is in a conspiracy with Republicans to do Y.

LOL! there goes the hyperbole again. But that sure shows where your sensitivities are. You're just setting yourself up for more pointed trolling attempts you know. LOL! But seriously the reason you guys go off the deep end with the other stuff (not the above) because you know it's true but hate to admit it.

txa1265 · July 23, 2009

Enough!!!!

dteowner · July 23, 2009

Just for you, Mike.

Expectations for President Obama

Wheeee!

SasqWatch

SasqWatch

SasqWatch

Wheeee!

SasqWatch

Shoegazer

Wheeee!

Shoegazer

Shoegazer

SasqWatch

Wheeee!

Wheeee!

Shoegazer

Wheeee!

SasqWatch

SasqWatch

Wheeee!

SasqWatch

Shoegazer