KoA: Reckoning - Review @ GameBanshee

Couchpotato said:

Hm first patch uh . There have been two updates already. I finished the game already and have no plans to play again. To me its not worth more of my time.

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I don't think those were patches, because I copied my saves from my desktop to my laptop and the game didn't want to load my saves on the laptop. It complained about missing downloadable content. I had to wait for Origin to download it. And I haven't seen any release notes if they were patches...

DeepO said:

No, it isn´t moot. "Optional" content is rarely moot.

1. The amount of side quests is often one of games´ selling points, as is the estimated play time and both of these may factor into customer purchase decisions. So, chances are, when people buy the game, a lot of them probably plan and want to do optional quests.
The optional content IS part of the price and this is doubly true in a game where a main quest constitutes only a small fraction of the overall play time.

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Good point and taken. I am of the age where if I get 40 hours out of a game it's a rare case, so I don't really have time for side quests. I do them if they seem interesting, but otherwise just take the 'wander sort of towards the main storyline' approach. ie: explore, but generally only do the main storyline. For a game like this, I really only expect 40 hours of "good" content. IMO, the vast majority of side quests are filler anyway, even in a so-called "deep" game like FO:NV. No matter how much they try to flesh them out, the end up all feeling similar to me. Hence why I figure they're moot.

I just get frustrated when I read a complaint like this when you could say the same of so many side quests (imo) in Bethesda's games, but they get hailed as the new-and-improved spit-shined holy grail upon every release. The Gothic games have interesting side quests, I haven't found many other games that really compare.

I'll give you that Bethesda's worlds are awesome and oh-so-explorable, mind you.

oliverh72 said:

I just get frustrated when I read a complaint like this when you could say the same of so many side quests (imo) in Bethesda's games, but they get hailed as the new-and-improved spit-shined holy grail upon every release.

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I don't think that's entirely true though. I've seen quite a few complaints regarding Skyrim's sidequests as well, especially the randomly generated "radiant quests".

rune_74 said:

Ok not the first patch then, my bad.

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The patches they have done so far were only to add the DLC content to the game, these were not gameplay/issue fixing patches.

I find the game to be very entertaining, main story and faction stories are fun to play (so far), I even find the filler quests to be fun (I am a quest addict I must confess).

Edit: Bethesda games and especially Skyrim generate random quests and after you have done one of each type they never change anymore in look and feel, next to that the design choice to make a "misc section" where there is nothing more than one line of text is also not helping in the immersion (I mean follow the arrow on your compass because otherwise you will never find this side quests due to the lack of description). In that case I rather have the Reckoning model where all side quests have a strong tie to the region where they are given and in some cases even a story line!

As for the items you find, very few items are of same or better quality and applicable for your chosen archetype. Early in the game you tend to find better items very fast (not counting blacksmithing here) but this will tremendously slow down after the first hours/levels. Of course it's all a matter of taste and preference if you like loot heavy games, but for me it works.

Gothic 1 handled loot the best.

In that, there wasn't any

Every sword, every armor you got...was super important and huge change. No incremental stupidness +1, +2 etc.........

rune_74 said:

Ok not the first patch then, my bad.

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No problem.

basharran said:

The patches they have done so far were only to add the DLC content to the game, these were not gameplay/issue fixing patches.

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I think the first was a day 1 patch to fix the loading problems. The second one I have no clue as nothing was stated. The second patch made the game v1.0.0.2 so there was some changes not just dlc.

Paul said:

Gothic 1 handled loot the best.

In that, there wasn't any

Every sword, every armor you got…was super important and huge change. No incremental stupidness +1, +2 etc………

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That was the best system in all my rpgs I ever played. You earned the armor and weapons.

Drithius said:

Reading all this makes me yearn for a game with the love for itemization that BG 1 & 2 had, with their terrific item back-stories and and (non randomized) item placement. Going through BG2 for the first time, unable to find a 2-handed sword better than Lilarcor for who knows how many hours of playtime… and suddenly stumbling across Soul Reaver +4 in the Underdark. It made for such a great gaming moment.

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Amen to that sentiment. To be honest, the reports so far about this game haven't really excited or endeared itself to me very much. I think I'd much prefer to go back to an old school game like BG and try another party configuration. The action-rpg genre must surely have reached saturation point by now.

It is so sad that GameBanshee abandoned numeric scores. All the yadda yadda is fine by me, but a site reviewing video games should have the balls to give ANY score.

Alas, it won't happen and I will visit GB for walkthroughs only.

I actually like all of the mentioned loot systems and it is more based on taste on whether you like one system or another. There are games I do dislike the loot system in (like The Witcher) but that isn't very common. I like the loot system in the Gothic/Risen games because equipment is so important when you get it and I like the Diablo (not Diablo itself) style loot system because of the variety of choices you have and so far in this game it is fairly good and I haven't needed to change most equipment for awhile. (except my daggers since I haven't found any decent daggers at all) The only problem I see is that it needs balancing since if there really are 280 sets in the game they need to drop way more often. (I have only come across 2 pieces of 2 sets and that was towards the beginning of the game and haven't seen any since then.)

Loot systems should fit the game. KoA is confused, as it's often presented as a serious CRPG - but then it turns into a hack/slash fest with Diablo-style loot. I don't think there's anything wrong with combining strengths of genres - but it should be done with a better idea of those strengths.

KoA, sadly, is a little lost in its own strange mixture of features.

I think the game would have worked better as either a more cerebral and challenging CRPG with hand-placed loot (with meaningful lore ala BG) and the lore reflected in the actual world - OR as a straight-up hack/slash game with much less emphasis on the lore and countless sidequests - and instead being about overcoming tough enemies through clever character building and appropriate loot-config.

Ideally, it should have included a cooperative multiplayer mode. Even as is, it's basically screaming for a 2-4 player co-op mode.

Loot system is preference.

I for example love random loot. And its one of big positive points in KOA for me.
And actually hate rpgs that have limited and poor loot selection (like Darkensang for example)

So different strokes, i guess

I think this loot thing is something which Blizzard introduced into the RPG mass market - so everyone believes now that proper loot HAS to be in there - as a kind of industry standard. Like so many other things with which Blizzard influenced the whole role-playing genre.

I think blaming Blizzard for people wanting shiny stuff is a bit off. They may have introduced certain loot-generating mechanics, but the hunger for loot is timeless. I certainly remember jumping with joy back in the day when I found cool swords in Bard's Tale or Pool of Radiance.

I remember entire D&D sessions with players driven by little BUT loot and power, way before Diablo was a glint in the eye of Bliz.

oliverh72 said:

IMO, the vast majority of side quests are filler anyway, even in a so-called "deep" game like FO:NV. No matter how much they try to flesh them out, the end up all feeling similar to me. Hence why I figure they're moot.

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Hm, in the case of F:NV I certainly see it differently.
There surely is a fair share of simple FedExs, but even these usually add something to the big picture, offer you variety of solutions based on your character build and help establish your character´s place in the gameworld via faction reputations.
The game´s side quests also don´t send you to same-y dungeons all the time, often are at least potentially combat-free, in the first half of the game or so work well to give exploration more meaning, contain solid to great writing and the game has a fair share of more complex side quests as well (the cannibal "faction" quest, for example, is brilliant), plus some companions have rather lengthy and involved quests too. Moreover, there´s quite a bit of mutually exclusive content, quests are quite often interconnected and some also offer delayed narrative rewards in the form of reactive variety of ending slides.
I´d say that, compared to Amalur (or Skyrim), in F:NV there´s percentually vastly more of optional content that feels consequential.

oliverh72 said:

I just get frustrated when I read a complaint like this when you could say the same of so many side quests (imo) in Bethesda's games, but they get hailed as the new-and-improved spit-shined holy grail upon every release.

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Double standards sure are annoying (but I don´t think that´s really GameBanshee´s problem and their review addresses Skyrim´s side quests sufficiently imo), but I think the world structure plays in Skyrim´s favour in this case, since it allows for more organic "customization" in this regard, whereas Amalur´s map structure and regional level scaling pretty much forces players to approach its content in a more procedural manner and that really doesn´t mesh well with all the filler.