My thoughts after completing Alpha Protocol

The boss fights were one of the things I was worried about before release, thankfully they're few and far between. I'm with everyone who thinks it's ridiculous any character can take multiple rounds to an unarmored head. If the boss fights were interesting challenges to figure out instead of "this guy moves 10x faster and is immune to bullets to the head" I'd be a lot more interested. Off the top of my head here's a better idea, a boss fight were you have to snipe/flank someone out of a charging bulldozer, interesting, plausible and wouldn't require a suspension of the game rules.

Maybe I'm being an Obsidian apologist (mostly to myself) but there are elements that just don't gel with the rest of the game and I wonder if Sega didn't have their hands where they didn't belong. Then I ask, is there a leadership problem at Obsidian or are they stuck in that limbo developer phase, big enough to make AAA titles but don't have the mega-hit to force creative control away from their publishers?
 
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It's a little strange to wake up old thread but I'm not sure it was worthing opening a new one.

So my thoughts after playing 2*15mn of Alpha Protocol is very weird. I makes me wonder what's so good in this game? The only bet I could do is it's because of the decision points and consequences, something not really concrete when you just try the game. Other than that I see only bad points. :biggrin:

There's two points that really hurt me:
  • The dialog system requiring decisions done in 2/3s when you are listening some other NPC to talk. I feel it targeted to very young players that don't want put more than 2 seconds in thinking. It's in fact even worse because at same time you have to listen someone speak.
  • The game flow is totally linear and let very few options to the players and constantly guide the player to the next target. it's like the Oblivion hand guiding pushed at the extreme.

But I have quite much more complain about this game… after to have played it 2*15mn:
  • I put resolution at quite low, all video setup at lowest, and despite that i had some very weird cam behavior, with a cause I couldn't understand, until i finally got it. Despite all video setup to lowest the game had huge drop down of performance involving huge camera jumps, hence the feeling that sometimes something is going very wrong with the cam.
  • I haven't yet seen much mini games, but those I have seen are poor gameplay, nothing really interesting.
  • The close combat is probably the most basic close combat system I have ever seen. And that's quite a huge problem when recent games made huge progress with this area, like Torchlight, Dragon Knight Saga and DAO, all providing many more close combat actions that pure hit or series of hit.
  • The shoot system is also quite bad, it makes no sense and force you zoom to gives it a sense. It's so pointless and just increase commands complexity by forcing zooming and the result is to make controls more weird.

I can understand that a complex decision web plus a deep consequences system and a deeper than usual narrative system can be fascinating. But build on such bad basics it's for me a huge waste. I doubt I'll ever played this game because of all the bad basics, too bad, yeah I mean too bad for me, because I'll never been able to appreciate the decisions/consequences system plus the complex narrative.
 
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The dialog system requiring decisions done in 2/3s when you are listening some other NPC to talk. I feel it targeted to very young players that don't want put more than 2 seconds in thinking. It's in fact even worse because at same time you have to listen someone speak..

I thought that was one of the best features of the game. Personally I've never thought that most RPGs require any thinking in conversations - repeat all options until you've said every potential line in the conversation tree and go for the options with skill checks in brackets whenever they come up. Maybe sometimes one can pick whether to be obsequious / greedy / insane / insulting but it never makes much difference.

The time pressure and inability to go back were a huge step forward for me, much more realistic.
 
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I thought that was one of the best features of the game. Personally I've never thought that most RPGs require any thinking in conversations - repeat all options until you've said every potential line in the conversation tree and go for the options with skill checks in brackets whenever they come up. Maybe sometimes one can pick whether to be obsequious / greedy / insane / insulting but it never makes much difference.

The time pressure and inability to go back were a huge step forward for me, much more realistic.
Well that's a point of view. Perhaps I'm a bit slow and years cumulating that doesn't help, but I don't see how you can put reflexion in so short time it's more reflex and mechanism for me.

The arguments, repeat all options, dialog options with no consequences, dialog options showing skill check, ability to get back, all has no link with having 2s to choose or as much time than you want. My complain is just about the time issue, I have been unable to enjoy any other possible qualities because I don't have the time.
 
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Well that's a point of view. Perhaps I'm a bit slow and years cumulating that doesn't help, but I don't see how you can put reflexion in so short time it's more reflex and mechanism for me.

The arguments, repeat all options, dialog options with no consequences, dialog options showing skill check, ability to get back, all has no link with having 2s to choose or as much time than you want. My complain is just about the time issue, I have been unable to enjoy any other possible qualities because I don't have the time.

The time pressure is a large part of the value for me . . . real life conversations (particularly in high pressure situations) you don't have time for long, considered reflection on what to say, you have to go with your instincts. Putting the time pressure on made it actually feel kind of like a real conversation for the first time in any computer game I've played.
 
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I think the dialogue system was also one of the best parts of the game. Now, if we're just speaking in very general terms, then I think I will always prefer the voice-less main character, where you get your full dialogue options to choose from and as much time as you like to choose. But, for the game-design that AP was pushing for (action-RPG with a cinematic, espionage flavour) then I think the timed dialogues worked very, very well. I also enjoyed that it was almost 100% conversations, so no going back to a dialogue node and exhausting options. It's always moving forward.

That was one of my pet-peeves about Mass Effect, because there I found the keyword system just wasn't warranted. A lot of the convos still worked like classic RPG dialogues, no timers and the classic "Investigate" nodes but you still had to accept the keyword system. I don't think the pay-off worth it at all but in AP I thought it was.
 
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Again I didn't questioned the other points of the dialogs but its "real time approach". I prefer much more turn based dialogs, and the whole AP dialog system could be implemented with a turn based approach.

For the simulation point of view well I'm not used to take important decisions in few second, for sure my job isn't spies. :) And anyway I don't want simulation I want fun.
 
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For the simulation point of view well I'm not used to take important decisions in few second, for sure my job isn't spies. :)
But that´s sorta the point - being a spy is your job in Alpha Protocol.

Granted, the system should be more lenient in some of the less pressing situations, few times player was forced to take a stance before being able to hear everything he was supposed to respond to and "suave" responses weren´t always particularly adequate, so it´s not like there wasn´t a room for improvement, but overall the feature was very fitting for the genre imo.
It´s an action RPG and spy-themed on top of it, so why not extent the action to dialogues? Makes perfect sense, even more so due to the fact that AP is a very to-the-point game - you rarely have an opportunity for idle chatting, majority of dialogues are "business".
Also, not all decisions had to be made on the fly - sometimes you could prepare in advance via dossiers.

Anyway, I´ve found AP´s dialogue system an exciting and entirely new gameplay experience and it´s actually one of the main reasons why I think it´s a really good game in a serious need of sequel.
 
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Mmm so this dialog system is good because it is "real time" and require decisions in 2s and at same time you are listening the dialog.

Well, I probably get teleported in a parallel universe. I also wonder how there's so many fans of the extreme hand guiding in this game. Ha well, it doesn't matter, it won't be the first game popular or with fame that I don't like at all.
 
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Anyway, I´ve found AP´s dialogue system an exciting and entirely new gameplay experience and it´s actually one of the main reasons why I think it´s a really good game in a serious need of sequel.

Definitely, first new gameplay mechanic I've really liked in a while, particularly in rpgs. Good on them for trying new stuff and IMO it worked pretty well.


Mmm so this dialog system is good because it is "real time" and require decisions in 2s and at same time you are listening the dialog.

Well, I probably get teleported in a parallel universe. I also wonder how there's so many fans of the extreme hand guiding in this game. Ha well, it doesn't matter, it won't be the first game popular or with fame that I don't like at all.

You don't ever find that a bit of pressure makes games more immersive or enjoyable?
 
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You don't ever find that a bit of pressure makes games more immersive or enjoyable?
For action perhaps, not for story decision, I'm quite surprised you put this at same level. I'm probably too old and too slow now, still I'm quite surprised there's no difference for so many players..
 
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I think - like many players - you're too focused on getting the "right" choice. That's the beauty of Alpha Protocol - sometimes it goes in unexpected directions but you're never truly penalised for any of the decisions.

I wouldn't want every game to use this method but in the context of a spy action/RPG, it works pretty well. Just let go and run with it - make the choices based on your first reaction. You might be surprised at the outcome.

I didn't understand your criticism of the shooting and I didn't play a CQC character, so I can't respond to that. I found the combat as competent as - say - Mass Effect, which was widely praised. The mini-games have some issues - bypass them or just accept it; it's not that big a deal.
 
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I think - like many players - you're too focused on getting the "right" choice. That's the beauty of Alpha Protocol - sometimes it goes in unexpected directions but you're never truly penalised for any of the decisions.
I do agree it's a good design to not put any challenge through dialogs and give any choices fairly equal results in any term.

But that's not at all what I felt from the few I quote from first dialogs through three attempt of replay.

I felt some of the first dialogs make you choose among different method, this being closely linked to the character choice you are making, more sneaker, more …. I don't feel then the choices are that neutral and if they are it's not at well what let think the choices offered.

I wouldn't want every game to use this method but in the context of a spy action/RPG, it works pretty well. Just let go and run with it - make the choices based on your first reaction. You might be surprised at the outcome.
The point is that I don't make any choice I don't have the time. I could make random choice but that's frustrating.

For replaying it, well better put some time between the disastrous short game sessions I did and anyway I uninstalled it, because I felt it was more a nuisance too me to be tempted try again, and again get frustrated.

I didn't understand your criticism of the shooting and I didn't play a CQC character, so I can't respond to that. I found the combat as competent as - say - Mass Effect, which was widely praised. The mini-games have some issues - bypass them or just accept it; it's not that big a deal.

I consider Mass Effect as a bad shooter, well I consider most modern shooter I tried as bad. But anyway it wasn't my point, it was about close combat fighting, too basic that's a very old and simplistic approach. That time is over I won't be able enjoy anymore such simplistic approach without some well design special attack or special defense.

For the mini games well ok I do agree that it's just basic but quickly done so not a too important bad effect on the game.

I'll try it again, a day, but I doubt I'll be able to enjoy the dialog system. But I pinpoint I played only 2*15mn the game, now it's about 3*15mn, so in no way my comments are anything close to a review, it's just feeling from a very bad experience from trying quickly and shortly 3 times the game.
 
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The dialogue is designed to make you go with your gut reaction; that's still a choice - just not one you get to mull over for several minutes. As I said, if you let go, it actually works pretty well. If you can't - don't play it.

I wanted to quickly comment on the linearity - the game is actually marvelously non-linear in some respects but you need to get past Saudi Arabia to see it. In fact, you need to get past Saudi Arabia to see anything... It's hard to recommend to someone to keep playing something they don't like but that's just the way it is - it's better after Saudi Arabia.

Lastly, on the shooter thing...I don't see too many shooters with cutting edge dialogue, so I don't see why an RPG should have cutting edge shooting. You're asking too much. It's fine if that's how you feel but you won't find many (any?) games that can fulfill both.
 
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My primary issue with AP dialogue wasn't so much the timer itself, though I think it's silly and gimmicky, but the fact that what my character said - VERY often had little or nothing to do with what I wanted to say. I don't know if it's due to my way of thinking versus the dialogue guy working at Obsidian - but it just didn't click.

I don't pretend to understand the life of a superspy, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't feel much pressure during most of the dialogues even as myself. I mean, you're often just casually flirting/talking with people without pressure - and yet you have to time your choices and make a guess as to what will actually exit your mouth. It's just a misunderstanding to simulate pressure with a simple timer, if you ask me. It doesn't "feel" realistic to me.

It didn't help that I found much of the writing bland, and much of the humor very weak.

Then we have the atrociously bad boss fights, with the "boat guy" being the worst offender. Never have I experienced a more immersion-breaking encounter. Truly.

I was actually enjoying myself - building my character and becoming comfortable with the quirky combat. Then along comes that fight and ruins everything…. I uninstalled and have never looked back.

Baaaaad Obsidian…. Baaaad Obsidian…..
 
I'm simply amazed this topic is still alive. Which reminds me: I should probably replay AP again in not too long.
 
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For action perhaps, not for story decision, I'm quite surprised you put this at same level. I'm probably too old and too slow now, still I'm quite surprised there's no difference for so many players..

Given the story's the most important bit to me it would seem odd to prefer that bit to be devoid of all tension while the time filler was full of it, but each to their own.
 
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I was actually enjoying myself - building my character and becoming comfortable with the quirky combat. Then along comes that fight and ruins everything…. I uninstalled and have never looked back.

Do you think you'll ever learn to love again?
 
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My primary issue with AP dialogue wasn't so much the timer itself…..

That's so strange, I wonder if the game is in full English or in my native language. I don't remember at all but that could possibly be the point, every players here very fluent in English and me not enough, and enough not fluent to break the whole dialog system... in ashes and making it a total failure.

I don't know I'm slow nor have no capacity to make multiple tasks at same time, so that would be strange suddenly this game put me far behind the crowd. :biggrin:
 
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