Skills learned from video games(cRPGs)

ironanno · November 21, 2007

Were having a debate at school about this topic: "That the skills learned from video games are just as important as what is learned from books." I started wondering how this would be true especially for cRPGs. Opinions?

Zaleukos · November 21, 2007

I can honestly not think of many "skills" I've learned from video games

In my case the only things I've picked up from computer games is a feeling for marginal utility (from strategy games), practical graph traversal (mapping corridors in dungeons), and an expanded English vocabulary on medieval weapons. Books have given me a lot more, obviously mainly in terms of vocabulary and general knowledge of the world (even a comic book will have references to real life if you are attentive).

So it's not just that I cant think of cases where the things learned from games are as important, but I have a hard time coming up with much I've learned from games at all. Books are simply superior vessels of knowledge atm.

zakhal · November 21, 2007

I learned to speak english fast. And I got fast reflexes and steady aim from decades of joystick/mouse use. I was the sharpest shooter in army. Army teacher called me a murderer after he saw how accurate my fire was.

Ubereil · November 21, 2007

The "classical" skill you can learn from computers/computer games is hand-eye coordination. I suspect you train your perception when you're playing computergames too, especially your visual perception. Since you're talking about RPG's you allso train problemsolveing. And if English isn't your native language then RPG's are a goldmine for learning English, since you use it on a different level than if you're reading books in English or watching TV/films.

Übereil

zakhal · November 21, 2007

There was a study som while ago which said that those surgeons who (had) played games had better skills than those who had not. They had improved hand-coordination that was quite useful in the operating room.

Also this is just a guess but games might improve memory functions. Its much more active hobby than TV that is mostly passivating. You might keep your memory longer if you play games until old age.

skavenhorde · November 21, 2007

Chinese...Hands down Chinese games have helped me tremedously with learning that language.

Edit: Forgot one...If you include learning games. I learned how to type and all the states and capitals of America when I was in Junior High.

ironanno · November 21, 2007

I started thinking about moral dilemmas and skills to deal with them. CRPGs are all about choice or should be in my opinion. The Witcher for example presents shades of grey and choosing from the lesser of two evils. Reading is an active process also but maybe games are even more so. Seeing how your actions have meaningful consequences and seeing how it affects NPCs around you could be I think useful for deveploment of thought. When you read a book you're presented with the writers opinion, in a cRPG you can have that but you can also play around with the game world and it's characters to some extent.

Edit:

zakhal said:
There was a study som while ago which said that those surgeons who (had) played games had better skills than those who had not. They had improved hand-coordination that was quite useful in the operating room.

Also this is just a guess but games might improve memory functions. Its much more active hobby than TV that is mostly passivating. You might keep your memory longer if you play games until old age.

I saw a documentary on old age sometime ago. The people who had an active hobby usually would avoid Alzheimers brought by aging. The people they'd studied had a brain area that apparently kept growing even at 80 or so. The hobbies on the show were mostly sports and there was one musical hobby also. I would quess an active gaming hobby would have the same effects, wonder if books would too.

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jul/brain-on-video-games

Good to have some authority on the subject

zakhal · November 22, 2007

ironanno said:
http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jul/brain-on-video-games

Good to have some authority on the subject

Gee had so much fun playing Pajama Sam that he subsequently decided to try his hand at an adult video game he picked at random off a store shelf—an H. G. Wells–inspired sci-fi quest called The New Adventures of the Time Machine. “I was just blown away when I brought it home at how hard it was,” he says. “I thought, ‘You can’t tell me that people go to the store and pay fifty dollars and buy this!’ Then I found out that there are billions spent each year on these games.”

Gee’s scholarly interest was also piqued. He sensed instantly that something interesting was happening in his mind as he struggled to complete the puzzles of The Time Machine. “I hadn’t done that kind of new learning since graduate school. You know, as you get older, you kind of rest on your laurels: You learn certain patterns, you know your field, and you get a lot of experience. But this requires you to think in a new way. I saw that the excitement of this is the challenge and the difficulty and the new learning. That’s what makes it fun!”

Of course I had to check what game he had played:

The New Adventures of the Time Machine

"Unfortunately, pretty pictures can't make up for the sheer number of frustrating elements in the game in addition to the problems with the story, the puzzles, and the control. For instance, you lose health when you save your game. Crucial cutscenes won't cue properly, which makes progress impossible. The list of complaints goes on and on."

"It's a nonsensical story periodically interrupted by a string of infuriating puzzles."

"I can actually agree with the gamespot review for once. this game sucks."

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/newadventuresofthetm/
Critic Score (8 reviews) 52% User Score (38 votes) 61%

But it was a good read thx for the link.

Jaz · November 22, 2007

While hand/eye coordination and what I call 'design empathy'* are among the skills trained by cRPGs and other games as well, the skill I find trained the most when I'm playing cRPGs is patience. Wait patiently until the NPC finishes talking so I won't miss any crucial piece of info, patiently trying to beat the boss critter for the umpteenth time, jump over the crevasse again and again and again, trying to solve a puzzle just one more time.

_______________________________
*by which I mean developing a feel for gameplay, thus being able to find and use expoits.

Prime Junta · November 22, 2007

To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's anything significant I've learned from cRPG's. OK, there is the D&D ruleset: NWN and NWN2 made me a much more fluent dungeon master in PnP games, but I'm not sure that counts.

However, there are games from which I have learned a quite a few things, or, specifically, they've illustrated and deepened my understanding of things I was already familiar with, or stimulated me to find out about things I didn't yet know. Rome: Total Realism is the best example from recent years. Never mind the historical details, but that game really created a "who's who in the ancient world" framework in my head in a way that no amount of reading could quite manage. Plus, it got me reading up on all kinds of things I wasn't even aware of; the Bactrians for example.

ironanno · November 22, 2007

Jaz said:
the skill I find trained the most when I'm playing cRPGs is patience.

I usually find I like listening to NPCs, depending on the game naturally. Quess that's just my play style. Usually if I find I'm not interested in what NPCs are saying I just quit playing. Do you have more patience when you listen to people also?

Prime Junta said:
To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's anything significant I've learned from cRPG's.

Just entertainment for you? Even if it's just entertainment I think one can learn things from cRPGs, or learn skills that aren't only useful in the game world, or in gaming. Completing quests, if they're tough enough, might improve ones logical reasoning. Still, I think the skills are rather abstract and it might take a psychiatric to find them.

Prime Junta · November 22, 2007

I think there may be other ways to classify things besides "educational" | "just entertainment."

For example, while I am entertained by walking the dog, going to a Bruckner concert, seeing an exhibit of Sally Mann's photography, or reading "The Waste Land" by T.S. Eliot, and I don't think I really learn any useful (or even useless) skills from doing these things, somehow I feel it's just slightly wrong to call them "just entertainment."

I certainly get a different kick out of them than things I do consider to be "just entertainment," such as playing Tetris, listening to/watching MTV, or leafing through an evening paper to catch up on the gossip.

titus · November 22, 2007

mmm I learned myself and what I would be in my mind be playing RPGs
Sometimes you play as youyr self without realising it at the moment.
Also sometimes you play as what you would want to be more like.example: a freil small boy will love it to play the strong brute, and a simpler guy would like to play the wize wizard or so.

ironanno · November 22, 2007

Prime Junta said:
I think there may be other ways to classify things besides "educational" | "just entertainment."
For example, while I am entertained by walking the dog, going to a Bruckner concert, seeing an exhibit of Sally Mann's photography, or reading "The Waste Land" by T.S. Eliot, and I don't think I really learn any useful (or even useless) skills from doing these things, somehow I feel it's just slightly wrong to call them "just entertainment."

I certainly get a different kick out of them than things I do consider to be "just entertainment," such as playing Tetris, listening to/watching MTV, or leafing through an evening paper to catch up on the gossip.

Yeah, I'm sorry I had to be somewhere and had to leave the post a bit unfinished and maybe unthinked too

. I quess those are rather narrow terms. I realize saying "just" was downright stupid, that's saying something is worth less and that's not in discussion here.

Skills aren't the only possible thing one gains from cultural activities, and if you don't become better at something, or learn some skill while you play a game that doesn't mean it just entertainment. So instead of learning some skills from cRPGs you still maybe gain some sort of a fullfilment, like what you get when looking at a piece of art, or reading great literature. The problem is what one means with skills. Still I think I understand better what you said in your first post now.

magerette · November 22, 2007

I have to stick in the fact that I am primarily able and willing to use a PC and flit around on the internet because my son got me to play a few computer games in 1995. I doubt I ever would have been motivated to learn anything about computers, (even how to use them at the email/photo shop level like so many of my generation,) without the need to learn basic operational skills and terms to install and play games. This is not to say I'm profoundly knowledgeable about computers, but I have a comfort level that many my age lack.

And in the 21st century, I can't think of too many more useful skills you could have. It's a great enabler for many things. It certainly goes beyond just entertainment, and is a pivotal force for re-educating myself--and I owe it all to Master of Orion2.

15th · November 23, 2007

Aside from a few logic puzzles, not a lot comes from crpgs, aside from a lot of reading and looking up the meaning of the occasional word.

It's not really a skill or cRPG, but after playing the "Thief" series I started paying more attention to light and shadow. Stalking around the house sneeking up on people, pity about the creaking floorboards otherwise I might of gotten good at it.

Cm · November 23, 2007

Well my grandkids have learned to read. If they want to play they have to be able to read the directions. They have also improved vocabulary wise. Meanings of words are important to game play. But those are limited skills and certainly no substitution for what a book gives.

zakhal · November 23, 2007

I taught my sister to play doom on a dos5-based pc when she was 6-7. Not sure if she learned anything from it but she did play it.

titus · November 23, 2007

Learned a lot of english vocabulary with it

Arpyjee · November 23, 2007

ironanno said:
Were having a debate at school about this topic: "That the skills learned from video games are just as important as what is learned from books." I started wondering how this would be true especially for cRPGs. Opinions?

1) Processing vast amounts of visual data.

2) Reading comprehension and vocabulary (more applicable to text-heavy CRPG's, like Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape:Torment, etc.).

3) Hand-eye coordination (more applicable to the TPS/FPS solo RPG hybrids such as Oblivion which have combat that is not turn-based, and therefore depends more on measurement, anticipation and reflexes).

4) Creative thinking skills, and overall imagination.

5) Ability to accelerate time more quickly towards the future (with CRPG's you enjoy).

6) Ability to decrease the procession of time (with CRPG's you find unenjoyable).

IOW, CRPG's transform the nature of man, and make man virtually omnipotent !!!

AHA !!!

Skills learned from video games(cRPGs)

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