Thief - Massive Review Roundup

DArtagnan said:

I've been playing more Thief - a few hours, and I'm warming to it. One very important thing is to customize difficulty to your liking. At first, I just picked "Master" - and didn't mess around much.

But I'm now playing with "expensive resources" and I've disabled nearly everything in the hud - which makes a big difference. It's much more immersive and challenging now.

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It's nice to see that developers are finally catching on when it comes to making HUDs more customizable. That's always been a big pet peeve of mine. Assassin's Creed 4 and now this game are great examples of how it should be done.

By the way, this is a game where I would HIGHLY recommend playing with a controller. I'm using an Xbox 360 controller - and lockpicking and movement both feel much more natural this way.

Using mouse/kb - you have a separate key for moving slowly - where the controller just uses the analogue pad. Since movement is a big deal in Thief - and your noise is directly related to your speed, this is how it should be played.

Same with lockpicking and "safe switch finding" - because you feel the vibration and the analogue circle movement is just comfortable in a way mouse movement can't be.

It makes a bigger difference than you might think!

JDR13 said:

It's nice to see that developers are finally catching on when it comes to making HUDs more customizable. That's always been a big pet peeve of mine. Assassin's Creed 4 and now this game are great examples of how it should be done.

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You will like the options in this game, then, because you can disable EVERYTHING - pretty much

DArtagnan said:

Using mouse/kb - you have a separate key for moving slowly - where the controller just uses the analogue pad. Since movement is a big deal in Thief - and your noise is directly related to your speed, this is how it should be played.

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Is it fully analog or does it still just go from slow to normal movement? Like in some games where you can ramp up the speed in increments by how far you push the stick.

JDR13 said:

Is it fully analog or does it still just go from slow to normal speed? Like in some games where you can ramp up the speed in increments by how far you push the stick.

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It certainly feels fully analogue - as I've detected no visible "speed steps" - though I'm not 100% certain.

They need to start making keyboards with analogue keys.

Not necessarily the entire keyboard, but maybe just WASD. I hate to feel like I'm missing out on functionality, and I find games like Thief to be less immersive when I have to use a controller instead of M+K.

JDR13 said:

They need to start making keyboards with analogue keys.

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That would be interesting

Not necessarily the entire keyboard, but maybe just WASD. I hate to feel like I'm missing out on functionality, and I find games like Thief to be less immersive when I have to use a controller instead of M+K.

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Well, I actually find the controller more immersive in most cases. Probably because the controls tend to be designed around them in most modern games - and I have a much easier time remembering which button does what, than whatever arbitrary key the dunces doing the port decided to use on a keyboard.

My issues with the controller is usually about precision aiming and hotkeys - but the latter isn't an issue in a stealth game, because you tend to have all the time in the world to select your stuff.

Anyway, I digress

But you should definitely try playing it with a controller - should you decide to play it.

Also, I tend to find it's much easier to get comfortable when I don't have to have my hands near my desk I can lean back in my big comfy chair - and my dog can rest on my lap without issue in that position

Now that I think back, I actually played the first Thief with a joystick (weren't exactly gamepads lying around those days) in my left hand, and mouse in the right hand. For the benefits of analog control, it worked out pretty well. I think I switched to keyboard for Thief 2. But I could see this new Thief being played with a 360 controller in the left hand, and mouse in the right. Moving the camera/head with an analog stick doesn't bode well.

You mentioned loading screens, my biggest concern. Do you have an SSD drive? Seems like that could have a very positive effect on that annoyance.

so which of you guys are the real thief fans? I think I am real fan since I just torrented it

Bah. If you're pirating something, go give EA's DLC:The Game a nudge and leave fair developers alone.

it was a joke

It's a bit odd to me that a lot of the criticisms leveled towards Thief are the same ones I had for Deus Ex: HR - namely the levels being too small and too obvious about its different pathways. The highlight of the original Thiefs and Deus Ex was the illusion the designers created that it was the player deciding how to go about a level, not the designer.

I suppose the reason why people are picking up on this flaw now is pretty simple: The biggest difference between Thief's release today and HR's back in 2011 is the presence of Dishonored. Thanks to the level design background of Harvey Smith and Arkane Studios, Dishonored served as a reminder of great open-ended design that harkens back to Thief and Deus Ex closer than any other modern game, HR included.

Dishonored has its own flaws, but the level design really captures that wonderful simulation type sandbox feel that empowers experimentation and encourages players to explore different paths through a level. HR - and now Thief - each failed to pick up on this crucial lesson from the older games. Combine that with horribly unnecessary "modernization" features - third-person view in HR, quick-time events and contextual movement instead of free movement in Thief - and each game suffers from bad design choices.

Now, with that bit of criticism out of the way, I did enjoy HR for the most part, even though the level design and some of the idiotic "modernization" choices bothered me. I'm sure I will enjoy Thief as well, as long as I keep my expectations in check and enjoy it for what it is rather than long for what it could have been in the right hands.

What he said.

I don't know about the new Thief, but that's the way I felt about DEx:HR. I know it was largely beloved by folks around here, but I though HR was weak. I won't bother repeating what Nere said about uninspired level designed, as he probably said it better than I likely would. This new Thief, in the videos I've seen, looks to be the same kind of uninspired level design.

I didn't think DX:HR was weak, but I agree that the original Deus Ex was better and the primary reason was level design. I simply found the levels more memorable. Places like Liberty Island, Hong Kong, and Area 51 still resonate strongly with me.

I haven't played Thief yet, but it's inspired me to give the older games another try. I started playing Thief Gold last night, and I'm going to attempt to play through the entire series.

@Huggy Face - Where is that avatar from?

JDR13 said:

@Huggy Face - Where is that avatar from?

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The avatar is from the Darkest Dungeon Kickstater. They have a few forum avatars they offer on site, and to backers.

Can't wait to play the new Thief and finding it as "meh" as Dishonored and Deus Ex HR.

Whenever people talk about DE:HR and it having small levels, I'm struggling to understand what they mean.

The game I played had very large levels - and some huge ones like Detroit and Hengsha, both of which are larger than anything I remember from Dishonored. Certainly on par with the bigger hub levels in that game.

The original Deus Ex had a LOT of open empty space - with the obvious opening level being a perfect example.

If that's what you mean by DE:HR having small levels, I can sort of understand that - though not as a criticism. HR supersedes the original in terms of level design and sheer visual variety in a very big way, if you ask me. 80% of the original DE levels looked more or less identical - and they certainly didn't give me the feeling of being in different locations on the same level as HR. With the exception of Hong Kong and the opening level in DE - they all blend together in my memory, because they use the same color palette and feel much the same.

HR levels all felt different and they were CRAMMED with details to find - and much more interesting for an explorer like myself. In fact, they were so full of terminals with unique information that I eventually felt exhausted trying to get everything - which I've never tried in a game before.

Oh well, to each his own.

mbuddha said:

Now that I think back, I actually played the first Thief with a joystick (weren't exactly gamepads lying around those days) in my left hand, and mouse in the right hand. For the benefits of analog control, it worked out pretty well. I think I switched to keyboard for Thief 2. But I could see this new Thief being played with a 360 controller in the left hand, and mouse in the right. Moving the camera/head with an analog stick doesn't bode well.

You mentioned loading screens, my biggest concern. Do you have an SSD drive? Seems like that could have a very positive effect on that annoyance.

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Oh, sorry - didn't notice your question before.

Yeah, I have an SSD

I'm sure it helps the issue - but I still think it's being blown out of proportion, unless you expect an open world streaming game, which it most certainly isn't.

It's an issue, yeah, but I find it to be minor. YMMV, obviously.

All I can say is that DX:HR deserved GOTY more than Skyrim.
While to some it was disastrous, to me it was one of best games I've ever seen and played.

And again.
Thief game is about a thief.
In Dishonored you're an assassin. In DX:HR you're whatever - but not a thief.

If you expect Thief game to be Dishonored or DX:HR, I suggest not to buy it. It's like buying Elder Scrolls 6 and expecting it to be polished and patched sometime in the future.

Because of Square Enix idiocy, I can't play Thief till tomorrow as it's still locked in my region. But expect impressions tomorrow night, can't play it in the morning because I'm working.

joxer said:

Thief game is about a thief.
In Dishonored you're an assassin. In DX:HR you're whatever - but not a thief.

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Oh come on joxer. You either haven't played Dishonored or you think that something is true because you said so.
To be an assassin you have to assassinate somebody. Not kill but assassinate. You can play Dishonored as an assassin but you can finish this game (as I did) without killing (or assassinating) a single NPC.