Bethesda Softworks - Cease and Desist Issued to PnP Fallout

kalniel said:

Can you be a joke while also being that successful?

Maybe the wrong person is laughing

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Yeah, pretty easily - you obviously know little about modern society.

No need to get personal. So what if I'm infact a vampire from the 18th century?

A bit late in the coming, but better late than never. Has anyone here actually played any of the games that Bethesda has ever put out? At one point in time (three of four years ago) five of their games were in my possession. Their newest games have passed my hands too. Even Oblivion. So, as you can see, I keep giving them a chance. But... Their products tend to get sold on Ebay after my frustrations get the better of me. Anyway, you know what my conclusion about them is? Bethesda blows. Look at EA and the Sims or Microsoft and Halo or the like... Almost flawless games for what they are and how they were intended. Released when they were ready. Finished. All of the final and patched game versions from Bethesda are horrible, shoddy, tossed together... Bethesda releases their products for income. They don't make games for anything but revenue. Bethesda doesn't care about fans or loyalty base. If they give it enough fluff before they release it, the kiddies don't care how many more months needed to be put into the game before it should have been released. At least for a while. Bethesda doesn't care about faithful customers when there are so many more potential customers graduating the fourth grade next year.

Don't get me wrong, making money has it's own priority. But every move Bethesda makes is for money. That doesn't give any confidence in what they are trying to make, no trust for any of their games. Instead of keeping Fallout how it deserves to be, Bethesda sold out and settled for their Oblivion engine because that was the cheapest alternative. DESPITE all the statements and promises they made about "Looking into new and promising technologies for Fallout 3" when confronted about the rumors (about making Fallout 3 with that very same engine). They could have actually looked into new game engines that fit with the Fallout style. Hell, they were given the Fallout codebase, and could have threw together something similar, but that was the more (relatively at least) expensive and unfamiliar route. They didn't have to use the Fallout name as a crutch to put out their own Oblivion-based Halo competitor. Being cheap like that or pushing a game out the door before it even had a decent amount of playtesting is a poor reflection on the company.

Anybody I bring the subject up with agrees that Morrowind and Oblivion are crappy games that could have been better but weren't, all because Bethesda doesn't take the time (and slightly more resources) to FINISH a game. Even the patched versions didn't do much for the most digruntling annoyances in their games. THAT is a reflection on what they will do with Fallout. THAT is why it's a sure bet Fallout 3 will sadly dissapoint every true Fallout Fan.

The real issue Bethesda has is with Interplay, they are on extremely shaky ground with GCG. GCG has full right to put out their finished products, despite Bethesda. You know why? Bethesda can sue Interplay all they want over that little oversight, but the Statute of Frauds and the Statute of Limitations (which is two to four years, depending on which US state you're in) guarantees that if Bethesda acts on anything for "Future Damages" of the Fallout name, GCG will get full legal compensation for all the aggravation and the affront on their verbal agreement with Interplay (which happened to have been made long before Bethesda actually owned the Fallout License or even purchased the rights to Fallout 3.) It doesn't matter if Bethesda did or didn't know about it, or is feigning ignorance. If GCG was acting on their contract since making the verbal agreement and didn't have it on the back shelf, Bethesda can huff, puff and bluff all they want about it. Like in real estate, so long as you purchase something that came with prior agreements (i.e. a lease or rental contract), you are legally bound to honor those agreements until they expire. In this case, GCG still has full right to publish their products because their agreement didn't come with an expiration date.

What a frustrating conversation to try to follow this thread has been... Have fun, that's what really counts. It's not worth it to stress over possibilities and "what if"s. Nobody changes their opinions much or very easily. Mine have been long and slow to build, but with good cause and reason. Some others shown here have no (apparent) basis to really back them up, but I guess that is to be expected. I've noticed that strong beliefs often receive strong (and irrational) defenses. We'll all know what happens when it happens, worry about something else until then.

P.S. Yes, in all likelyhood I shall find myself one of the first to purchase the game, because even Bethesda deserves a second chance (or, uh, many second chances, heh.) The unfortunate part is they never fail to disappoint. Later everybody.

take a breath

I like Morrowind and Oblivion, theyre great games in my opinion. I dont have a problem with Bethesda, their games work fine for me. Ive gotten my money's worth, in fact I think Morrowind is the singleplayer game Ive logged the most time in ever.

What I like most about that post of yours is that at the very end, after the ticking off of all your talking points one by one, why this company blows and what not, you state that youre going to run out and snap up their next major disaster!!

This greedy bastard of a company that you dislike, this exemplar of all that's wrong with game producers. Youre going to fork over your (no doubt) hard earned cash, because out of the goodness of your heart, you believe "even Bethesda deserves a second chance".

That's absolutely priceless! Money cant buy the laughs I'm getting out of that one.

Welcome pyropipboy4000 and a word of advice from someone who used to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on (you get the picture) try writing a little less to make your point. I know the feeling of wanting to express every concievable notion that comes into your head on a certain topic especially if it is something your very passionate about, but in the end it is a little annoying. (sorry about that guys)

While my opinion differs slighty from Sammy's (I didn't like Morrowind or Oblivion due to the hollowness of the game) I think the great tiger has a point and it was pretty funny you put that much effort into writing that post about the evils of Beth but then say you're going to buy their game anyways.

I'm just tired of firms threathening other firms with lawsuits instead of trying to talk to say GCG about making a PnP game in co-operation with Bethesda.

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I am sure they did try to talk first. GCG most likely replied with a polite STFU thus the lawsuit.

I used to work in a courtroom and it's not like the movies. It's all pretty dull legal-speak and lawyers actually do make phone calls, write letters and hold meetings to avoid court proceedings and lawsuits.

Nice rant, Pyropipboy4000!

Despite its loyal fans' objections, Bethesda isn't changing a thing. There's no need, apparently. It's a superstar and plays by different rules. It can ignore fans the way some individuals ignore traffic laws. It can't be bothered. Bethesda probably wouldn't even show up for court (and I'll bet there are no panties under Bethesda's skirt).

Or bras under their shirts

xSamhainx said:

What I like most about that post of yours is that at the very end, after the ticking off of all your talking points one by one, why this company blows and what not, you state that youre going to run out and snap up their next major disaster!!

This greedy bastard of a company that you dislike, this exemplar of all that's wrong with game producers. Youre going to fork over your (no doubt) hard earned cash, because out of the goodness of your heart, you believe "even Bethesda deserves a second chance".

That's absolutely priceless! Money cant buy the laughs I'm getting out of that one.

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Hmm. You must have missed the snippet above where someone said the first to buy it are usually those that moaned and groaned the most...

skavenhorde said:

I didn't like Morrowind or Oblivion due to the hollowness of the game.

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That says it right there. Because those games were pretty much shells, empty husks, and because of all the glitches and frustrations that could have been worked out but weren't, those games got shelved then eventually sold. Sure, I could wait to hear the general verdict about Fallout 3 from others and not bother to buy the game, but I really would like to see that despite their money-whoring, Bethesda might just try to finish a game for once, and despite the flaws that have already been announced, make a decent game. Even if it falls short of the true Fallout genre. Bethesda will never live up to the expectations reserved by true Fallout Fans, that conclusion came to me years ago. If nothing else, I'll buy a used copy from some disappointed enthusiast off Ebay instead of dishing out money to Bethesda personally. Problem solved. Besides, you should always try something first-hand before making a final decision about it.

Am I seriously the only person here who isn't surprised? Seriously? If interplay didn't have license to do this stuff, why on earth would Bethsoft not want retribution for them trying to do it? If I was working with a fellow scientist doing research, and I was both funding the project personally, and doing all the advertising, as well as much of the research itself, I wouldn't exactly be pleased if my research partner decided he was going to sell the rights to our research to someone and not even so much as ask me if I'm OK with it!

Seriously... I would LOVE to see a PnP version of Fallout, but the fact of the matter is: if Bethsoft let something like this go(which is the equivalent to stealing someone's wallet and then slapping them across the face, in the business world) without some sort of reprisal, their reputation as a formidable competitor on the world market would be shot. I'm not saying that they should (or even will) sue, and in all likeliness, they wont, but the idea of it is a message. It's the difference between someone grabbing you by the shoulders and giving you a menacing glare before they sternly tell you "don't you EVER do that again!" vs. someone quivering and cringing off in a corner 20 feet away from you whispering "p-p-please don't do that... I d-don't like it..."

get my point?

This thread is two years old. I have no idea how the case developed.

I haven't read everything, but what I don't understand is why they did a "cease & desist" although there was NEVER ANY sign that Bethsoft would develop P&P ruleset themselves ?

Would some of the reporters here please ask Bethsoft if they do plan to do so ?

Alrik Fassbauer said:

I haven't read everything, but what I don't understand is why they did a "cease & desist" although there was NEVER ANY sign that Bethsoft would develop P&P ruleset themselves ?

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Because they have to by law or they lose the rights themselves.