What Culture - 10 Severely Underrated RPGs

lackblogger said:

soooo…. you mean every single RPG ever made apart from Bethesda games and Witcher 3 deserved to be on that list? Ok…

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Yes, that's exactly the straw man I wasn't setting up. Thanks!

No strawman. If your gauge of whether something is mainstream is whether it gets on CNN puts a pretty big bar across the entire industry. The way you interpret non-mainstream, in this context, as meriting the title 'underrated' is absurd.

Who do you think is going to click on the article? Middle aged stock-brokers on a break from swimming with dolphins while on holiday in the Bahamas? Or people who are, you know, interested in reading about any potential RPGs they've missed? You honestly think anyone who's interested in clicking links about RPG computer games hasn't already heard of many of those titles in 2015?

Don't forget, on that link you have to be interested enough to actually click through ten pages of clickbait. If it was top 10 underrated Bahamas hotels, I wouldn't be clicking through…

Edit: and I didn't even click through it...

I'm going to respond one last time, and then stop regardless of your follow-up, as getting into an internet debate is pointless…

… making one more post myself is pointless, I know …

but your straw man is saying that I'm saying that unless an RPG game is Bethesda or Witcher, it isn't mainstream and therefore belongs on an 'underrated' list.

I'll unpack that in three 'quick' points -

1 - I was simply pointing out that the word 'underated' is the trouble word, by that I mean it is quite open to personal interpretation as to what constitutes being 'underated' - and that the author of the article's intent was fairly clearly stated as being RPG's that fail to get highlighted by the mainstream.

2 - I then explained how I thought what the author might mean by mainstream spotlight would be mainstream gaming journalism spotlight. You rarely see mention of games like V:TM-B or Alpha Protocol in, say, Forbes or USA Today or the New York Times gaming articles. I would say that Gamebanshee, RPGWatch, maybe even as big a site as say Rock, Paper, Shotgun or The Escapist, are not mainstream game media - but when an Alpha Protocol or KOA:R gets mentioned on mainstream game news site, like IGN or Gamespot or Kotaku (pick your poison), it is usually with middling reviews at best.

3 - Lastly, I make a distinction between 'mainstream gaming' and 'mainstream RPG gaming.' Mainstream really means majority appeal, what is conventional for the largest group of a society or community. For gaming, what RPG sells or gets the attention of Call of Duty or Madden? Maybe a Witcher or Fallout 4, possibly (as I listed) a Mass Effect or Dragon Age. But if you go by sales numbers, what RPGs sell at the highest levels? Pillars of Eternity? Divinity: Original Sin? Really? What has the numbers (ignoring, say, non-PC games which are RPGs, like Pokemon, for a moment, which outsells almost anything) are the Diablos, MMO's, and Witcher… oh, and Skyrim, Fallout 4…

So, yeah, when you say that my argument is that being on CNN, as you changed it to, or that, and I quote, "every single RPG ever made apart from Bethesda games and Witcher 3 deserved to be on that list", then you are, indeed, setting up a straw man to knock down. That was not my argument, never my argument, and you fighting that argument is not fighting me, but a straw man.

Feel free to have the last word, if you need it.

lackblogger said:

No strawman. If your gauge of whether something is mainstream is whether it gets on CNN puts a pretty big bar across the entire industry. The way you interpret non-mainstream, in this context, as meriting the title 'underrated' is absurd.

Who do you think is going to click on the article? Middle aged stock-brokers on a break from swimming with dolphins while on holiday in the Bahamas? Or people who are, you know, interested in reading about any potential RPGs they've missed? You honestly think anyone who's interested in clicking links about RPG computer games hasn't already heard of many of those titles in 2015?

Don't forget, on that link you have to be interested enough to actually click through ten pages of clickbait. If it was top 10 underrated Bahamas hotels, I wouldn't be clicking through…

Edit: and I didn't even click through it…

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You seem to be shouting at me for some reason. If you think I've misunderstood you it might be because you've been unclear in the first place. You did mention CNN, so you must have thought CNN must be relevant to your point, if it wasn't then don't highlight it.

Re: point 1 - I agree, 'underated' could mean almost anything - if you set the bar that high. Yes, RPGs that get unnoticed by the mainstream still includes every RPG ever made except those which make stockbrokers happy. This still doesn't explain why the author chose the games they did beyond "here are the crappier games that the mainstream companies made and didn't sell so well, because they were a bit crappy".

Re: point 2 - You just repeat the same point here. Which belies the fact that "What Culture" are not themselves a mainstream media outlet. So if people are only viewing mainstream media then they wont be viewing the article anyway. But thanks for explaining what the author's intentions were, I guess it adds another dimension to their idiocy.

Re: point 3 - You just repeat the same point here, there's no need to separate your post into separate points. It's just 3 ways of saying the same thing.

So I conclude from chatting with you that the entire intent of your post was to explain what the author was intending rather than to provide any personal opinion on whether you had any opinions on the actual subject matter of the article?

You see, I guess the confusion here has arisen because it's very difficult to know what it is you're trying to express (beyond trying to explain what the author's intent might be). Yes, every game ever made that isn't a happy stockbroker game is less well-known than a happy stockbroker game - that's kinda captain obvious.

You started your post by saying the trouble word is "underrated" but then fill your post with information about what might or might not be mainstream. So are you criticising the author for not understanding what words mean or are you simply interpreting what you think they actually meant?

I guess if you don't like conversations then that's why your getting stressed at the idea of having one, but if you don't practice how will you ever improve your skills so you don't have to run into so many panic inducing confusion-fests?

The simple interpretation of this article is that it's meaningless clickbait made by someone who hasn't a clue what they're talking about who just plucked a load of games at random from a position of having very little knowledge of the subject they're reporting about with no idea of who the article was designed to be read by.

Hyperion said:

I'd never heard of Jade Empire until reading this article. I just took a look at it on Steam. A Kung-fu RPG? That's interesting, not sure if in a good way though…

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JE is a unique RPG and totally legit

Well said!

(what's a non-legit RPG?)

SonOfCapiz said:

Ok you guys have convinced me to consider firing KoA up again. Any difficulty mods you can recommend?

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There was one , let me get back to you ...

lackblogger said:

Well said!

(what's a non-legit RPG?)

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by legit I meant worth trying...

duerer said:

I am an old fart, so my underrated list is short, but sweet (to me, that is!):

1. Magic Candle
2. Dark Heart of Uukrul
3. Legacy of the Ancients

Get this, you hipster!

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I agree. These were great games. We've never seen anything like Legacy of the Ancients in the last 25 years. At least with Magic Candle we got 3 games before it petered out. Dark Heart was great, but I'm not sure how a sequel would work today.

joxer said:

Those two are actual garbage and not underrated.

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I'd completely agree had you said "disappointment" or "forgettable" but you obviously don't know what actual garbage entails…

Despite everything KoA in fact runs and plays better than 90% of console ports , or than any such port from Bethesda's kitchen (which is suppose to be AAA cream)

Actual garbage means shipping a broken game. Like Skyrim or Dungeon Lords.

luj1 said:

I'd completely agree had you said "disappointment" or "forgettable" but you obviously don't know what actual garbage entails…
...
Actual garbage means shipping a broken game. Like Skyrim or Dungeon Lords.

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I'm pretty sure joxer was dumpster diving and literally found those two games in the garbage. From then on he thought those games were actually garbage. That's my only explanation as to how he can have said views on two very fun and underrated games.

(Just having a bit of fun with you joxer.)

KoA got some great reviews it didnt deserve, like 9/10 on ign. Its the opposite of underrated.