Wasteland 2 - Kickstarter Passes $270k

It cost that much for a reason, and that was the FMV it employed...I think it was one of the most expensive games of the time.

A few people pledged $10,000. I wish I had that much disposable cash.

Pledge $10,000 or more
3 Backers • Limited Reward (5 of 8 remaining)

Previous reward + COME TO AN EXCLUSIVE PRIVATE PARTY hosted by Brian Fargo, Alan Pavlish and other key members of the Wasteland team (must be able to travel to Newport Beach, CA). Talk design, previous works or anything else you’d like to discuss. Also, a shrine in Wasteland 2 will be erected in your honor. You’ll receive 50 copies of the game to do what you want and our deep appreciation. And a medal.

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It's been a while, so I can't clearly remember the exact posts and comments but as best I recall, Baldur's Gate cost ~$3M. If Wing Commander cost $12M, it would have been extraordinarily expensive.

Some more modern comparisons. Drakensang cost $2-3M (and was originally commissioned for $1M as I recall) - Gorath would remember the exact details. The Witcher 1 cost ~$10M.

Still, time marches on. Inflation ensures you can't remake an identical Baldurs Gate for the same figure over a decade later.

Dhruin said:

If Wing Commander cost $12M, it would have been extraordinarily expensive.

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Google "Wing Commander IV 12 Million" if you find that hard to believe. Granted, a lot of that was because of the big-name actors and use of film (as opposed to video) for shots. Still that gives you an idea of what big name actors and production value could do to you budget even over a decade ago.

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/715337/the-history-of-wing-commander-part-two/

CG cut scenes and big-name voice overs are not particularly cheaper today by any stretch of the imagination. Salary costs for developer talent are roughly twice what they were back then on average (in part due to inflation and cost of living increases), but a few million should allow for a rather high quality and ambitious production since they don't seem to want to go for too many big named actors and avoid using high-budget cut-scenes.

I think Wasteland 2 as a project is really helped by the fact that they've pledged to go with top-down graphics and prioritize choices & consequences over bells and whistles such as cutscenes or even voice acting. In terms of the financial resources available the game surely won't compare to what Baldur's Gate or even Drakensang had available during their development processes…but that is also not necessary since those games put a lot more emphasis on crowd-pleasing next-gen "fluff" (because even SUCH seemingly niche games, being conventionally funded as they were, ostensibly had to be able to compete with mainstream products on the market) which Wasteland 2 simply won't bother with. This, rather than inflation, is what makes it impossible to compare budgets directly between old RPG classics and a Kickstarter-fuelled revival by the fans, for the fans.

@jhwisner, no don't doubt you -- but that's still incredibly expensive.

I am very pleased with these crowd founding thing. And no doubt will i give some money to this, i really would like my own NPC for people to kill . He must be mean.
(I just need a way to find the money to back him up)

@jhwisner: I remember reading about the production cost of WC IV and my mouth could stop drowling. There was alot written about it.

Dhruin said:

It's been a while, so I can't clearly remember the exact posts and comments but as best I recall, Baldur's Gate cost ~$3M. If Wing Commander cost $12M, it would have been extraordinarily expensive.

Some more modern comparisons. Drakensang cost $2-3M (and was originally commissioned for $1M as I recall) - Gorath would remember the exact details. The Witcher 1 cost ~$10M.

Still, time marches on. Inflation ensures you can't remake an identical Baldurs Gate for the same figure over a decade later.

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That's not exactly true - it becomes progressively cheaper to make a similar game due to advances in software tools and computing power. Like you noted - Drakensang cost less than BG2 and Germany isn't exactly cheap on labor costs. Also it wouldn't amaze me if a large portion of the production cost consisted of voice acting and cutscenes.

Something else to take note of - $1 from Kickstarter is worth a lot more than $1 from a publisher. Typically the developers don't get any money from actual sales and the publisher owns the IP. They might even end up owing the publisher money!

With Kickstarter funding, developers can build up their own cash reserves after a successful project and keep their succesful IPs. Like Larian Studions, they get a real shot at becoming truly independent.

Nerevarine said:

You know, there's one negative aspect of the kickstarter phenomenon that hasn't really been discussed yet, but it's starting to bother me a bit: Kickstarter projects are only feasible for fairly big-name developers, and it takes away opportunities from the indie developers.

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Beside all the answers other already gave to you, I should add that numbers are proving quite the opposite: the arrive of "big names" and "big projects" on Kickstarter caused a peak of awareness about the whole thing, and since Double Fine have been registered more pledges than ever, even on other smaller projects.

Also, indies don't have to reach these same numbers. If Rampant Coyote could just raise 50000, I'd imagine it could do wonders for the look of his game.

Dhruin said:

Some more modern comparisons. Drakensang cost $2-3M (and was originally commissioned for $1M as I recall) - Gorath would remember the exact details. The Witcher 1 cost ~$10M.

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When Drakensang was pitched several local publisher were interested, but they demanded the game for 1M EUR (ca. 1.25M$ back then). The answer was "Impossible!". The project was greenlit only when additional money through a government-supported fund had been found.

TheSisko said:

That's not exactly true - it becomes progressively cheaper to make a similar game due to advances in software tools and computing power. Like you noted - Drakensang cost less than BG2 and Germany isn't exactly cheap on labor costs. Also it wouldn't amaze me if a large portion of the production cost consisted of voice acting and cutscenes.

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I've heard devs explain that game dev labor costs in Germany are on average ca. 1/3rd lower than in the US. Devs in Berlin are said to earn (even) less than their colleagues in other regions.

Something else to take note of - $1 from Kickstarter is worth a lot more than $1 from a publisher. Typically the developers don't get any money from actual sales and the publisher owns the IP. They might even end up owing the publisher money!

With Kickstarter funding, developers can build up their own cash reserves after a successful project and keep their succesful IPs. Like Larian Studions, they get a real shot at becoming truly independent.

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Yes, it's a dream for development studios. No risk due to external funding. No publisher insisting on capture the flag mode or stupid focus groups. Thousands of supporters who paid upfront ... all commited, all will talk about the game. That's a lot of free marketing.

Larian's Divinity 2: DKS cost 6.5M EUR, btw., and Lar thinks they could do it for 2M less nowadays. (There were 2 other Divinity 2 products. It's not clear if or how they are included in the 6.5M.)

Its amazing what unregulated producers can do in a free market

CrazyIrish said:

You also have to remember that while 1 million bucks isn't exactly indie territory, its not even close to AAA territory.

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So, what does that have to do with anything? I'm supporting it because it is NOT a AAA title.

Couchpotato said:

I doubt but I really don't care. If the end product is good then they might get my money.

Nobody's getting my money without showing me the end product. So many things can go wrong or change during development.

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Ahh, It's good to see you do your screen name, epitaph and avatar justice.

In all seriousness, I can understand being hesistant. They did bring us Hunted: The Demon's Forge.

But I'm taking a possitive stance for now on these fan-funded projects and since I even have bought games in the past that I knew were bad before buying them I knew I would end up buying even this game even if it turned out bad.

Admittedly I would probably never pre-order a game I expected to be bad (I'd rather wait till the price drops), but as I said in these cases I'm willing to put more faith in it since they don't let the 'press' convince me but actually do their part in trying to convince us.

Also note that it seems sometimes some form of Indies don't calculate forgone wages while they work on the game. So even indie games cost more than one would expect based on how many people work how many hours on the game.

I was wondering if there was something written on this subject on the internet and I found it, only it doesn't talk about developers but it could just as easily be:
What is Sweat Equity Worth?