Shadow of Mordor - The Nemesis System

Nic Rowen of Destructoid posted a new article where he gives his opinion that Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system is the true beginning of this generation.

Imagine an espionage game like Alpha Protocol that lets you threaten other agents and goons into giving you information or sabotaging a target. Missions that could be randomly interrupted by an enemy you made on a previous job, or a mysterious ally lending a hand in exchange for a favor. Or how about you transplant the orcs social power struggle system into a game like Bully, where no-name punk kids could climb to power one atomic wedgie at a time? (It isn't a huge jump to make, high schoolers are basically orcs when you think about it.)

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More information.

The nemesis system really is the best part of the game, IMHO. Most of the game just seems like Slaughter of the Uruk where I kill huge numbers of orcs only to have them respawn soon after I turn my back (or even just wander in if I stand still for more than a couple of minutes). The nemesis system, though, has been pretty fun. I'm going to remember "Zog the Crazy" for a good while!

Yep after 8 hours im still just running around killing chiefs and uruks and having a good old time. There are so many different was to approach the situation and gathering intel actually matter even if it is a bit easy and repetitive. Just wish there were different difficulty settings. Game a bit too easy.

I suppose I should start some of the story.

its all about the characters and motivation. While there are tons of people still grinding mindlessly, eventually they'll realize the more you know about your "enemy" the more you want to move on.

*and by know, i mean all white and gray details

Meh, it doesn't really work for me. After the first few times, I just learned how to escape, and since then I haven't been dying, so no one gets an upgrade.

Also, it gets a little annoying after a while, because even without dying, the army just re-populates. The nemesis system doesn't really have an effect on the overall balance. I guess if you keep messing it up against the same guy, he'll become super badass or some such thing, but the "medium level" ones will spawn no matter what you do.

Maylander said:

Meh, it doesn't really work for me. After the first few times, I just learned how to escape, and since then I haven't been dying, so no one gets an upgrade.

Also, it gets a little annoying after a while, because even without dying, the army just re-populates. The nemesis system doesn't really have an effect on the overall balance. I guess if you keep messing it up against the same guy, he'll become super badass or some such thing, but the "medium level" ones will spawn no matter what you do.

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I think if you execute (rather than just kill) a captain then he won't come back to live again. But yes, it was fun for a while but its very easy to run away from a fights so I hardly die now.

Killing them through the missions, especially the elite captains, is by far the easiest way to level up. If you kill them all in 1 life they won't come back till you die/advance the story to a certain point.

I wasn't referring to a specific captain. I just mean that specific captains do not matter, as they'll just be replaced by generic, new ones regardless. The army will re-populate itself eventually. I managed to get them down to 6x captains at one point and the next time I checked Sauron's army it was almost doubled, despite not having been killed or anything.

Does it matter if someone is called Tazrak or Dumborg or whatever? A power level 10 captain is a power level 10 captain. Not long after you kill one, another one will just pop up. They vary slightly in terms of strength and weaknesses, but that's about it.

So no, it's not possible to clear his army or anything. They'll just keep tossing random captains at you.

I enjoy the nemesis system a lot, too. You can't fully clear the army and there is some repopulation of captains but it is slow and it can help on missions and free roam to clear a way by killing several of the captains. I find progress easier after I have cleared away some of the captains.

And I enjoy the individual duals with captains. Finding intel about them and then exploiting their weaknesses and avoiding their advantages. Facing a captain without knowing much about them is much tougher, so for me it pays to do legwork and find intel. I am often surprised during missions and free roam if I do not find out intel about captains, so that makes finding intel meaningful.

I do not know about application of a system like this to other games. It works well in this game but if you put it into another game in a different setting, I do not know how well it would work.

Let me preface this by saying I read the above comments. The one thing I learned is that the nemesis system progressed through the game. I could not "dominate" any of the orcs until I reached the second area through story advancement. I actually thought they took this functionality out, at first. Happy to see it is still there. Now I can send captains against others for assassinations, incite riots, and duel other captains. The amount of intrigue you can create within Sauron's army is interesting. Currently I have about 65% of Suaron's army under my domination. I am attempting to dominate the entire army. Dont know if you can or not, but I am going to try.

I have heard various opinions about the nemesis system. I think it is an enjoyable change from Orc1001001. Each Orc has its personality, weaknesses and fears. One orc capatain killed me so many times that he refused to kill me any more. Said I wasn't worth the nick in his blade. How awesome is that! Yes I sucked at the game at first... getting better now.

Anyway this system could play out in other games very well. I wonder how well it would do in an MMORPG! Imagine Nagafen from EverQuest remembering how parts of you remain wedged between his teeth, or how the oil from your charred corpse made sillohettes on his lair wall. Now that would add a new level of personalization to an MMORPG!

Lue.

"Each Orc has its personality, weaknesses and fears."

I am enjoying that aspect, too.

I played the game for 45 minutes or so. I sort of resented how trivially easy the game made everything. It seems to be another of these "games made for morons" as I've called them in the past. The game slows way down and shows a huge button prompt when you should counter, as if fearing some player out there might not understand. (I know some of the prompts can be turned off.)

I prefer the old style where you had to actually WATCH enemies movements and develop your skills. The new DmC: Devil may Cry did a great job of this and has one of the best and purest combat systems IMO. It took 30 hours of playing for me to really master the combat, at which point I could do most levels without being hit if I really paid attention.

This whole topic deserves more attention: easy empowerment when games only take 30 minutes of playing to master everything. I can see both sides...in truth many gamers are just looking for mindless action and dumb button prompts...otherwise QTEs wouldn't exist I suppose.

Still, Devil may Cry pulled me in because of it's intellectually and physically challenging combat. Mordor made me like some dumb Uruk, just pressing buttons when told to...anyone else feel this way?

Brumbek said:

I played the game for 45 minutes or so. I sort of resented how trivially easy the game made everything. It seems to be another of these "games made for morons" as I've called them in the past. The game slows way down and shows a huge button prompt when you should counter, as if fearing some player out there might not understand. (I know some of the prompts can be turned off.)

I prefer the old style where you had to actually WATCH enemies movements and develop your skills. The new DmC: Devil may Cry did a great job of this and has one of the best and purest combat systems IMO. It took 30 hours of playing for me to really master the combat, at which point I could do most levels without being hit if I really paid attention.

This whole topic deserves more attention: easy empowerment when games only take 30 minutes of playing to master everything. I can see both sides…in truth many gamers are just looking for mindless action and dumb button prompts…otherwise QTEs wouldn't exist I suppose.

Still, Devil may Cry pulled me in because of it's intellectually and physically challenging combat. Mordor made me like some dumb Uruk, just pressing buttons when told to…anyone else feel this way?

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I do and I agree with you. However, it is difficult to have a combat system just like the one you described for DmC that also combines stealth and interaction with the environments. So it seems like the system that they adopted (taken from the Batman games) is the best compromise for that setting and what they wanted to do.

Personally I like a combat system that is even more involved than that of DmC (which I still consider as a button mashing system), just like the one in Blade of Darkness, Mount and Blade and to some extent Dark Souls.

Maylander said:

So no, it's not possible to clear his army or anything. They'll just keep tossing random captains at you.

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A little update on this. Using the branding system, it is indeed possible to eliminate every enemy captain. I managed to do that yesterday. Interesting.

I grew bored with this very quickly.

I wonder if I missed something. Is the story any good at all?

Half decent at best. It's not bad though, and there is a 2nd area that I feel is better than the 1st.

Maylander said:

Half decent at best. It's not bad though, and there is a 2nd area that I feel is better than the 1st.

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Hmm, I guess I should try again then. It looks nice and controls well. It just feels so excessively repetitive.

I'm just not a big fan of these super systemic combats with strange immunities and gamey rules.

I guess I prefer less obstacles when I fight stuff

This is not related to the news article, but is related to the game itself.

It's been made public that paid brand deals have been made with youtubers to offer them early access to the game, and in turn they are contractually obligated to provide very specific/restricted content of the game.

This is one interesting video which details some of the content of said contract. Not really shocking about what the clauses mention, but it's still ugly and shitty none-the-less. I guess more interestingly is the fact that they needed to pull something like this, when the game is half-decent. I guess never leave it to chance, and they also probably have no faith in their own game.