The Witcher 2 - Preview @ Eurogamer

Climbing etc as I described - I've been playing it for a preview article.

Just to repost the entry in the FAQ (also see first reply in this thread):

RED Engine allows player to jump, sit, use stairs / ladders. Freerun – no way.
#### There is a different animation to each specific obstacle. There is one animation, when you jump up 2 meters, and another, when it’s 2.8m. Another animation when you run and jump, another when you walk - yet another when you're standing. You can't jump on and from high obstacles. You can't also deliberately jump into oblivion. ### [.LINK – Polish post]
### You can jump onto obstacles up to 2.8m and jump down up to 5m. You can also jump over obstacles up to 4m wide. You can jump over fences and walls up to 2.8m. You can't walk on the edge of wall, balance, etc. You can use ladders. Some additional possibilites appear only in quests (ex. you must use the chimney to give gifts to children, but you can’t enter every chimney). Obstacles up to certain height are jumped over automatically. ###
• Geralt’s still able to enter waist – deep water

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(Emphasis mine)

I would strongly think that that still holds.
Judging from the context of the review:

Geralt is locked to specific paths within the forest (alas, he's still denied a jump function) but there are enough of them and the forest is labyrinthine enough that this doesn't feel especially limiting.

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Probably the issue is simply that the barriers the previewer wanted to jump over are specifically "corridor borders" that are put by the designers to constrain and structure the level, therefore they are not considered as normal jumpable objects.

It is however pretty clear from the FAQ that jumping is tied to objects (specific animations) so as Dhruin says, there does not seem to be a standard "press spacebar to jump".

I would be very disappointed if the next Risen, Gothic or Elder Scrolls game didn't include jumping, but the Witcher was never the kind of game where you can look at a mountain at the horizon and then know that you can climb it. It's nice if they added some climbing and jumping, but it's much more important that they focus on the intricate storytelling they are so good at.

On the other hand, an RPG with Assassin's Creed-style free running could be very fun, I hope to see it some day. Elder Scrolls VI?

GhanBuriGhan said:

It is however pretty clear from the FAQ that jumping is tied to objects (specific animations) so as Dhruin says, there does not seem to be a standard "press spacebar to jump".

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Meaning that design remained basically the same (i.e. you could jump in limited hotspots
in part 1 too if one will recall the Vizima sewers).

That's Ok by me. I've long discarded the illusion that this would turn to gothic style
freedom (Hell even G3 and Risen cut back on that). They set their priorities elsewhere
(this short of freedom represents a huge additional workload and appropriate design
obviously).

I am more concerned on whether they will use fencing in to artificially create the
impression of bigger Maps (and prolong play time as in part 1) as many complained,
or actually create big, detailed worthy to explore Maps. After all they had Aurora's
limitiations to blame back then (and they did a fantastic job with it btw), not so much
with their own engine (Tooted as the BEST RPG ENGINE tm)…

Pity though, with their own Engine they could decide to design differently…

Hmmm….

I'm none too pleased with the hotspot implementation as that FAQ makes it sound.

I was considering a sight-unseen purchase for this, but that's definitely out now.

I might have gotten the wrong impression, but it's hard to get right when you're trying to know as little as possible about a game before release.

DArtagnan said:

Hmmm….

I'm none too pleased with the hotspot implementation as that FAQ makes it sound.

I was considering a sight-unseen purchase for this, but that's definitely out now.

I might have gotten the wrong impression, but it's hard to get right when you're trying to know as little as possible about a game before release.

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Its not gonna be a freeform exploration game, that is clear. Judging from the first game and what they said about this one I would say its about halfway between a bioware game and a Gothic 1/2 game in its "openness" (with TW1 being about 60% Bioware, 40% gothic). Hah, nothing beats made-up statistics Well, I just wanted to express how the design "feels" to me, and obviously its just a guess for TW2.

GhanBuriGhan said:

Its not gonna be a freeform exploration game, that is clear. Judging from the first game and what they said about this one I would say its about halfway between a bioware game and a Gothic 1/2 game in its "openness" (with TW1 being about 60% Bioware, 40% gothic). Hah, nothing beats made-up statistics Well, I just wanted to express how the design "feels" to me, and obviously its just a guess for TW2.

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We certainly don't agree that TW1 was 40% Gothic. Levels were structured mostly like Bioware games, but the actual gameplay felt more like an adventure with C&C and a bad combat system.

I wasn't really expecting a fully freeform game, but I was expecting a flexible movement system.

I'm not saying the game won't still be great, but just that things like this make me think twice.

Not being able to jump over trivial obstacles is one thing, but if they've kept the "corridor" limitations of the first game - like what's being said about the forest area - then I might be too annoyed.

It should be said that I wasn't a fan of the first game, and my scepticism is mostly due to my potentially misguided first impression that this would be a much less linear game.

I've deliberately stayed away from previews and talk about it, and I've mostly just cast glances at a few videos. To me, it certainly seemed to have become a lot more freeform than the first game - and I guess the release will tell the whole story.

Jumping = AI Pathfinding nightmare

Just thing of how many times you plucked that monster full of arrows in Gothic , Morrowind. Because it couldnt find path to jump to you.

GhanBuriGhan said:

Judging from the first game and what they said about this one I would say its about halfway between a bioware game and a Gothic 1/2 game in its "openness" (with TW1 being about 60% Bioware, 40% gothic). Hah, nothing beats made-up statistics

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Let me see: single timed click battle for #1, linear paths, no vertical design whatsoever, adding a strong/fast (2 click) combat system and some limited (I would say cosmetic) jumping for #2 ?

Well if we are making up numbers I would say that Part 1 was more like 80/20 and Part
2 70/30, if your assessments are correct.

DArtagnan said:

Not being able to jump over trivial obstacles is one thing, but if they've kept the "corridor" limitations of the first game - like what's being said about the forest area - then I might be too annoyed.

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Exactly what I am afraid of. I stayed away from previews initially and got the impression
of an open world (they said no loading screens after all). But it seems more like a linear
progression of streaming loaded "Maps".

Pure speculation at this point of course, but this is the vibe I get.

To be clear. I loved the first one even though a Gothic style is my favorite kind of ARPG.
If this one is just a prettier TW1 I will have gotten my money's worth.

It is just that it could be so much more (or that I let my imagination run away and am
feeling a bit disappointed now, still if they get the good stuff from #1 right again all will
be Ok).

Twotricks said:

Jumping = AI Pathfinding nightmare

Just thing of how many times you plucked that monster full of arrows in Gothic , Morrowind. Because it couldnt find path to jump to you.

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Yet both games were loved by fans, weren't they

JonNik, I was only considering the level/landscape design in my assessment, not the combat or any other gameplay elements . The city, the chapter 1 landscape, the swamp, and particularly the chapter 4 landscape were significantly more open then what you find in a Bioware game IMHO (at least the ones I played), although significantly smaller than the "chapter landscapes" in Gothic 2, e.g.. There was certainly a bit of an exploration feeling to first entering each landscape though, something I do not really get in Bioware games at all. Although exploration got exhausted long before you are done with the level.
But I have no intention of defending my made-up numbers to the death :lol: At least we seem to agree on about a 10% improvement for part 2 :lol:

DArtagnan, if you didn't like the first game, I have severe doubts you will suddenly fall in love with the sequel - I have seen no indications that it will be a fundamentally different design, just (hopefully) refined: areas a little larger, a different combat system which we will have to play to judge. I would definitely recommend to wait for reviews and player reports. I must admit though that I also tried to keep my pre- play exposure to the game low.

@GhanBuriGhan
Oh I agree with you, definetely more open and less static than a Bioware game, just
making a point that it is a far cry from a true freeform game and more focused on other
aspects. Besides I love made up stats as much as then next guy so I wanted to jump in
on the fun.

Those are good Map examples you mentioned. If they have designed it so that it is possible
to travel between locations via alternate paths (instead of returning to a hub location i.e.)
then you can add another 10% to that 10% and I will be mostly satisfied

There is no jumping ingame, but iam most certainly jumping from happiness.
Been a while since i have been looking forward to a new game.

I guess it depends on one's expectations: if you expecting a rpg game to be realistic (as in real life) then jumping is natural and expected over small hurdles even if you are a huge warrior. In Witcher 1, Geralt can jump (more like bull jumping with a couple of rolls!) over enemies but can't go over a low fence! That breaks the realism and freedom as one is more expected to jump or go over a fence than to leap frog over someone in a fight!

This in no way affects the excellent story, the settings, the interactions .. etc of the game itself though.

55 comments on jumping? Someone should do an RPG where the bad guy sets fire to the Olympic Village, casting a brave group of hurdlers, long jumpers, high jumpers and triple jumpers out into a WORLD OF ADVENTURE WITH JUMPING.

THE JUMP OF DESTINY!

LEAP INTO THE UNKNOWN!

YOU CANNOT HURDLE FATE!

BAND OF BOUNCY BROTHERS!

It has nothing to do with jumping itself, it's a matter of being able to fully explore a world in 3D.

No jumping and climbing was definitely one of the more glaring flaws of the first Witcher. Vertical dimension was really lacking in world design and constantly being glued to the ground felt very unwitchery, especially when standing in front of a wooden fence. Typical case of gameplay/story segregation, emphasized right in the beginning by the intro where Geralt engages in all kind of vertical antics player can´t.
Due to game´s other qualities, this was far from being game breaking issue for me, but I certainly hoped the guys will do something in this regard for the sequel.
And it seems at least partially they did, judging by the FAQ. The hot spots solution isn´t ideal, but being able to perform "leap over" or "climb" actions in-game is still good improvement over the prequel where these actions were limited to cutscenes.
If implemented somewhat thoroughly and nonintrusively, I think I´ll be satisfied with this solution.

Melvil said:

The nitpick brigade is out in full force for the release of what will probably be the best rpg this year.

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The usual SHUSH brigade is the aggravating party here, not people posting about how they perceive the game through the lenses of their preferences.

I don't want CDP to invest effort in making an open worlder when that's not what makes the Witcher special... The rich story and setting are what Geralt brings. Turning him into the Assassins Creed hero just produces a different game, and I don't get the sense CDP need much advice on which game to make.

DArtagnan said:

Yet both games were loved by fans, weren't they

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Agreed. There is nothing more satisfying than beating stronger opponent by meta-game thinking (using engine shortcomings) aka improvising.

On the other hand. I can totally understand that it breaks immersion as well.
And perhaps they didnt want this to happen.

Yes, being unable to jump knee high fences in TW was annoying but let's be realistic: Project Red's budget is nowhere near BW's, Bethesda's or Piranha Bytes'. Choices needed to be made and, judging by how successful this game has become , Project Red's choices turned out to be (mostly) right ones.