hishadow
Level N+1
Yeah, there was something really unhealthy about raiding in WoW if you had any hope of experience all raid content. That was by-design and cannot be blamed on "addictive players".
WoW - Strange In-Game Counselling Plan
- Thread starter woges
- Start date
Every game is made to exploit psychology. The right reward at the right time = excitement/fear/laughter meaning a release of neurotransmitters (like PJ said). If this is done at carefully chosen times it can certainly be addictive, but I do agree some MMOs are better at this than others.
And of course the parents are involved in the addiction. They are the ones allowing the kid to play long and often enough to become addicted. Of course the addiction should be taken seriously, but the parents have to acknowledge their part in the addiction as well, otherwise they will just let the kid go back to playing games 24h straight.
Edit: Of course most children who become addicted have underlying problems, such as depression or social phobia. Not trying to downplay that importance, but parents need to see their role in it and not just blame the companies.
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WoW actually has a parental control system to give parents the power to limit their child's playing hours and total time. What I wouldn't like to see, though, is PJ's suggestion of a 8-hours-a-time cap for everyone, that's what they're doing in China and has no place in the Western world IMO.
Having played WoW for about 150 days since release (but not any more) I can say that there's few times I or others would want to play longer than that. But if I did -- say it's the first weekend of a new expansion -- I'd be extremely annoyed at not being allowed to use my time for what I find fun.
The (now vast) majority of WoW players are casuals, and even among the hardcore raiders few have real addiction problems, and I've played and talked with more than a few. Most hardcore raiders are pretty normal but choose to spend a lot of time on the game because of the social aspect and the good rewards at the high end.
Quitting or taking a pause out of boredom or burn-out simply is a way more common response than addiction when exposed to too much of the mechanics put in the game to keep people interested.
Having played WoW for about 150 days since release (but not any more) I can say that there's few times I or others would want to play longer than that. But if I did -- say it's the first weekend of a new expansion -- I'd be extremely annoyed at not being allowed to use my time for what I find fun.
The (now vast) majority of WoW players are casuals, and even among the hardcore raiders few have real addiction problems, and I've played and talked with more than a few. Most hardcore raiders are pretty normal but choose to spend a lot of time on the game because of the social aspect and the good rewards at the high end.
Quitting or taking a pause out of boredom or burn-out simply is a way more common response than addiction when exposed to too much of the mechanics put in the game to keep people interested.
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DArtagnan
Guest
I still read stuff on my old guild forum from time to time, and at least once a month there's a person quitting to "get his life back together" - and I kid you not.
I'm not sure what that means in terms of statistics, but it tells me that the problem is a lot more serious than what some of you are trying to claim.
One thing you'll find with many "addicts" is that they're not aware of it until it's too late. They go on about it not having an effect, and they're just playing instead of watching TV or drinking with their buddies. That may be true, but in my world playing one single game for so many hours at a time is a VERY different thing from doing a VARIETY of other things that involve reality.
I was "addicted" myself for a long while, and it was especially harmful to me because I was sharing this addiction with my girlfriend - which essentially meant we both neglected a lot of stuff. No, it wasn't like drug addiction and today I suffer no real injuries as a result, except I have ~180 days of my life less to spend on other things. I enjoyed WoW for sure, but the game was basically over within the first 6 months - and I regret not spending time doing other things. It's one of the most blatant wastes of time I can think of, and this new "achievement" approach to WoW is downright insulting. Such a system, once in place, is about the most hollow waste of time that I can imagine. Yet people chase these little numbers and titles like there's no tomorrow.
As a game designer, I bet you I could make 100 achievements a day without even setting my brain in motion. It's scary that Blizzard have become OK with adding "content" in this way.
I got out if it a lot less "damaged" than several I know on a personal basis, and in fact I still know people who dedicate their lives to this online fantasy world.
They'll say it's not a problem, and maybe it isn't - but that's not what I'm seeing that's for sure.
I'm not sure what that means in terms of statistics, but it tells me that the problem is a lot more serious than what some of you are trying to claim.
One thing you'll find with many "addicts" is that they're not aware of it until it's too late. They go on about it not having an effect, and they're just playing instead of watching TV or drinking with their buddies. That may be true, but in my world playing one single game for so many hours at a time is a VERY different thing from doing a VARIETY of other things that involve reality.
I was "addicted" myself for a long while, and it was especially harmful to me because I was sharing this addiction with my girlfriend - which essentially meant we both neglected a lot of stuff. No, it wasn't like drug addiction and today I suffer no real injuries as a result, except I have ~180 days of my life less to spend on other things. I enjoyed WoW for sure, but the game was basically over within the first 6 months - and I regret not spending time doing other things. It's one of the most blatant wastes of time I can think of, and this new "achievement" approach to WoW is downright insulting. Such a system, once in place, is about the most hollow waste of time that I can imagine. Yet people chase these little numbers and titles like there's no tomorrow.
As a game designer, I bet you I could make 100 achievements a day without even setting my brain in motion. It's scary that Blizzard have become OK with adding "content" in this way.
I got out if it a lot less "damaged" than several I know on a personal basis, and in fact I still know people who dedicate their lives to this online fantasy world.
They'll say it's not a problem, and maybe it isn't - but that's not what I'm seeing that's for sure.
I agree that most of the WoW addicts that do exist aren't aware of it themselves, but even when looking at it from the outside I can't say that I see addiction in many of my old guildmates the same way you do.
Also, I think the Achievement system attracts mostly casual players and give them a bit of direction on what to do in the game. For most addicts the things that matter are bosses killed and/or your arena rating. I guess what you're talking about is semi-serious players becoming hardcore because of achievements or some other "hook" that exists in the game but I'm not sure how much ofa problem that is.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that WoW is way more boring than addictive to most people when taken to an extreme level over an extended period. But maybe what I consider to be "normal (kinda-)hardcore raider" behavior is harmful as well, and that would certainly mean that there's a lot of people negatively impacted by the game. I just don't think that's the case.
Also, I think the Achievement system attracts mostly casual players and give them a bit of direction on what to do in the game. For most addicts the things that matter are bosses killed and/or your arena rating. I guess what you're talking about is semi-serious players becoming hardcore because of achievements or some other "hook" that exists in the game but I'm not sure how much ofa problem that is.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that WoW is way more boring than addictive to most people when taken to an extreme level over an extended period. But maybe what I consider to be "normal (kinda-)hardcore raider" behavior is harmful as well, and that would certainly mean that there's a lot of people negatively impacted by the game. I just don't think that's the case.
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DArtagnan
Guest
As always, the truth hides somewhere in the middle.
Also, I would never blame WoW or Blizzard for the addiction people might have, and certainly I take full responsibility for my own case of it. I was in a bad spot at the time, which contributed to my unhealthy relationship with the game.
I just think it's worth it to take into consideration, and I think MMOs need to rethink how they approach this "hook" because at least it should be worthwhile on some level. Not that I can say what's worthwhile for other people, but I think the achievement concept - which is also prevalent in other places like consoles - is horrible. But apparently, many people don't and I guess that's fair enough.
I just think it's a major cop-out if you use it as anything other than a little spice.
Also, I would never blame WoW or Blizzard for the addiction people might have, and certainly I take full responsibility for my own case of it. I was in a bad spot at the time, which contributed to my unhealthy relationship with the game.
I just think it's worth it to take into consideration, and I think MMOs need to rethink how they approach this "hook" because at least it should be worthwhile on some level. Not that I can say what's worthwhile for other people, but I think the achievement concept - which is also prevalent in other places like consoles - is horrible. But apparently, many people don't and I guess that's fair enough.
I just think it's a major cop-out if you use it as anything other than a little spice.
I agree with you about Achievements but some people find them more meaningful and the charm with large games like WoW is that you only need to like a couple of aspects of it to make it fun.
I also agree with you that MMO devs should be careful how they try to make people keep playing their game, but I think WoW has moved away from many addictive elements it had in the past (like timesinks now being rare and a conscious design decision to avoid everything cool feeling trivial rather than being the norm for all forms of play). That's why I can't really agree to label it a dangerous game.
(Not more dangerous than we can tolerate anyway, since we can't and hopefully don't want to completely protect people from everything.)
I also agree with you that MMO devs should be careful how they try to make people keep playing their game, but I think WoW has moved away from many addictive elements it had in the past (like timesinks now being rare and a conscious design decision to avoid everything cool feeling trivial rather than being the norm for all forms of play). That's why I can't really agree to label it a dangerous game.
(Not more dangerous than we can tolerate anyway, since we can't and hopefully don't want to completely protect people from everything.)
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DArtagnan
Guest
I guess it might have become less dangerous in its move towards becoming truly casual. The irony is that I'd never have gotten hooked on the game such as it is now, because I need a certain kind of elusive carrot before I find "the grind" interesting enough.
Also, I was never really into the whole concept of MMOs - and I basically wrote them off early. But since my ex and I both wanted to try WoW - just for the heck of it - I got hooked simply because of the shared experience.
These days, I only dabble with the genre - and though I tend to try out most of them, they very quickly turn out to be exactly the same in concept.
I'm playing AoC currently, and I think it's great. But I can't stomach more than a few hours here and there, because playing these games alone just isn't that interesting. I never was the kind of gamer who could "bond" with people online - because I find such friendships to be lacking something substantial that I apparently require.
Also, I was never really into the whole concept of MMOs - and I basically wrote them off early. But since my ex and I both wanted to try WoW - just for the heck of it - I got hooked simply because of the shared experience.
These days, I only dabble with the genre - and though I tend to try out most of them, they very quickly turn out to be exactly the same in concept.
I'm playing AoC currently, and I think it's great. But I can't stomach more than a few hours here and there, because playing these games alone just isn't that interesting. I never was the kind of gamer who could "bond" with people online - because I find such friendships to be lacking something substantial that I apparently require.
About the in-game counselling: I think it is actually pretty interesting if they could use it as a way to get in touch with the patients, when no other option is viable, and maybe build a basic relationship with the patient before meeting them.