Baldur's Gate II Questions

JDR13 said:

Well to each their own, I thought it was a bit ridiculous that you could be a Mage\Thief\Monk\Fighter\Cleric.

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It's not really comparable, as multiclassing in 3rd edition does mean sacrificing levels in other classes. Your character would have gimped weapon skills (all classes except for fighter gain 0 points at level 1, thats a -4 compared to a straight cleric or thief) and be limited to low level cleric and mage abilities of limited use. Compare that to a kensai 7/mage in BG2, the kensai levels have cost 1/6 of a (high) mage level...

Havent tried 4th edition, is the principle similar to the TDE ruleset (Drakensang) where your class gives you starting skills and bonuses, but still lets you learn almost every skill if you choose to spend your XP that way?

azraelck said:

It isn't really amazing; it's a quality game. I'm looking forward to Icewind Gate getting done, and being able to play BG/BG2 through in 3E mechanics. ToB might be a bit much for that engine though, due to the HLA's.

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I thought Icewind Gate was abandoned?

That said I agree with your take on 3rd edition being a more interesting ruleset (2nd edition characters are basically defined by level and class, there's not much thinking involved in character building), but I am not sure a 3rd edition BG1/BG2 ever was realistic. As experience and levelling works so differently it would require rebalancing every encounter...

JDR13 said:

What size monitor are you playing on? I found that even 1024x768 was too high for me, as it made some details too small. That was on my old 19" CRT though, I haven't tried it on my new monitor.

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Have a 23" Samsung and 1024x768 in BG II is absolutely fantastic.

Cthulhufan said:

Have a 23" Samsung and 1024x768 in BG II is absolutely fantastic.

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Very nice, I just bought a 24" Samsung last week.

Last I heard, Icewind Gate wasn't abandoned. But then again, I don't pay much attention to things. Yeah, it'd have to be rebalanced, but that's nothing new.

The best thing about 3E is that you don't randomly lose the abilities of a class you're not leveling up. Class changing Imoen was painful, since I didn't have another thief to take up her slack. So until she hit level 7 as a Mage, I had to rely on Knock spells.

The allowed dual class combinations (at least as implemented in BG) were more than a little arbitrary as well, for instance: why allow fighter-cleric but not paladin-cleric?

Zaleukos said:

The allowed dual class combinations (at least as implemented in BG) were more than a little arbitrary as well, for instance: why allow fighter-cleric but not paladin-cleric?

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That again was a function of the 2E rule set. Why not allow Halfling Mages? Why did Gnomes HAVE to specialize in Illusion? Why did Rangers and Paladins require so much more XP over a Fighter, when they really had nothing justifying it? The entire 2E rule set made little sense, and in PnP games a lot of the restrictions were ignored entirely. BG ignored some as well, but there are racial level limits on most classes save thief, playing by the book means only human characters can reach epic levels in any class.

I always excepted most of those limitations as part of D&D lore, even if they didn't make much practical sense.

The racial level limits were the worst though... didn't make any sense at all.

JDR13 said:

I always excepted most of those limitations as part of D&D lore, even if they didn't make much practical sense.

The racial level limits were the worst though… didn't make any sense at all.

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Isn't it funny how it just becomes part of your wiring for fantasy RPG and when a new system comes along you immediately compare things to THAC0 and so on ... ?

JDR13 said:

I always excepted most of those limitations as part of D&D lore, even if they didn't make much practical sense.

The racial level limits were the worst though… didn't make any sense at all.

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Most CRPGs luckily ignored the level caps. The one that I remember retaining them (Goldbox Forgotten realms series) pretty much ruled out playing non-humans. Yay for being capped at level 9 or 13 when the humans can reach level 40

IIRC, Hillsfar didn't ignore them, but Hillsfar was an odd game out. I don't remember if EotB did, but IIRC Dungeon Hack didn't.

The later on it got, the more computer games ignored more and more of 2E rules. BG2 was the best implementation of the 2E ruleset.

Sorry folks, I'm a little slow, what was the draw to 3E rules again? I've got the CD editions of AD&D rulesets along with the hard copies of 3E manuals but it's been so long and everyone I play with uses GURPS these days. I know that the new 4E system sucks because it's twisting the ruleset to fit a MMO style of play, we tried it and it was absolutely horrible…

Back on topic, I have a party question.

I recently lost Nalia to the husband quest (I can get her back) but gained Viconia.

Viconia is a damned fine cleric. My trouble is this:
Party is:
Main Char (Half Elf Kensai)
Minsc
Anomen
Yoshiro
Jaheira
Viconia

I've really been enjoying the triple threat from my main/Minsc/and Anomen but now I don't have a sorcerer…

I'm just looking for party advice. I don't care about the ultimate death machine party, I'm having fun with all the quirks and intricacies of my current party.

The deal is that I guess I've got to give up one of my cleric/druid types to make room for a sorc. Or do I? Can I do this game without a sorc?

Sorry for the wierd question, it's just that my current party is really fun…

I suppose you can finish game without mage/sorcerer but thats no fun in my opinion And btw, there is no sorcerer NPC in BG2. If you want sorcerer, you d/l NPC mods or make your PC one. If you are willing to drop cleric or druid for mage, I'd say drop Viconia or Jaheria. Anomen is just too fun to have around (in my opinion anyway!)

Eventually, you'll pick back up Imoen, which will fill your mage slot nicely. I usually stuck with Jaheria simply because I did in BG. I did use Vickie in BG1 as my main Cleric; usually by killing off Dynaheir so I could keep Minsc without her.

You could pick up Aerie, whose a Mage/Cleric; filling both slots. She'll be a bit weaker at either than a pureclass but more versatile. I always went with her simply because she amuses me.

Then again, if you're having fun with what you got, why bother? Clerics are powerhouses just the same as Wizards; so you're not losing out.

The draw to 3E rules is that it's vastly more versatile and streamlined than 2E. You can, with enough source books, build a character around any niche concept you want. Kensai/Mage is easily possible, without spending most of the game unable to use either Mage or Kensai abilities because you haven't got your level in the new class up high enough.

If you ever dual-classed a character in BG1 (say Imoen to Mage), then you'll notice you lost the first class' abilities entirely. When I played, I had no thief even though Imoen had 100 in Find Trap and Pick Lock; because at level 6 I changed her to a mage. It was near the end of the game in Chapter 7 before she was back to being a thief. (and then I had to download Shadowkeeper to change her skills to what I had left them at in BG1 when I dual-classed her).

While in a CRPG context the streamlining doesn't matter (the game handles everything behind the screen, so the player doesn't need to figure out what they need to roll to hit a AC -3 critter with a THAC0 of 19 (22, I think). But in PnP context, it cuts back of stopping the game to figure stuff out (or look up on a table).

Since her magic resistance resisted friendly healing spells I hated Viconia in BG1

Even a melee-oriented party can use at least one wizard, if only for dispelling protections and hasting the party. Of course Keldorn or an inquisitor PC can fulfill that role as well, but that is only for good-aligned parties.

The game is nicely balanced and most rational party combos work. As long as you include one thief for disarming traps (Imoen is perfectly adequate for the entire game) and dont build a party of six bards you should be fine….

Cthulhufan said:

The deal is that I guess I've got to give up one of my cleric/druid types to make room for a sorc. Or do I? Can I do this game without a sorc?

Sorry for the wierd question, it's just that my current party is really fun…

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The game will give you a new mage soon enough as you progress with the main quest. If your party works against the current opposition (I take it you are in chapter 2-3) there is little need to change it.

Zaleukos said:

Since her magic resistance resisted friendly healing spells I hated Viconia in BG1.

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I liked Viconia. Give her the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a good mace, and she could whoop some ass. I though she made for an interesting companion anyways.

The thing that sucked was that she would leave your party if your reputation hit 18(?), and that would always happen due to the way I played.

I usually killed a guard or two, or maybe an annoying NPC, when I could get away with it, just to drop my rep a healthy bit. The Rep system didn't work quite right when trying to play a evil party, though there is a mod out for it that splits it into two stats; rep and virtue IIRC. I'm not sure how it works, so don't ask me. There's also a mod that'll stop the NPC's from leaving if your rep doesn't match what they want, though they'll complain unendingly. I use that myself, because it's easier than going and finding a lone NPC to butcher and maim every so often.

azraelck said:

I usually killed a guard or two, or maybe an annoying NPC, when I could get away with it, just to drop my rep a healthy bit.

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Best target to do that is Nalia's aunt....

Yeah, but I'm not ressing her just to do it again. Waste of a good spell.

In BG2 I think you can lower your rep by 2 points every time Viconia joins, so all you have to do is kick her out and let her join again...

You can? It doesn't go back up when you kick her? I never bothered with that; she's always my main Cleric. Much to Jaheria's annoyance.