I don't like Planescape Torment. Is there something wrong with me?

Of course we have. But books are non-interactive linear experiences. In terms of delivering an incredible story in the context of an RPG with some meaningful choices, it's among the best ever made.

I have to say, though, that the writing in PS:T puts it in a category where I really have a hard time ranking things as "better" or "worse." It's one of a kind; there's really nothing to legitimately compare it to. (Somebody novelized it, by the way. That sucks like a tornado. The writing just doesn't work in book form.)

Definitely hard to compare to a book, those are completely prescribed and the author has so much freedom to build a powerful narrative arc. I found the emerging storyline for planescape amazing though, and to accomplish that when the experience was one I at least partly shaped myself is testament to some pretty impressive writing.

That's true it's difficult to compare any CRPG to any novel but when people highlight a game almost only through features that could be features of a book I feel it very suspect.

I don't think PST beginning is good, it has many flaw and even the story telling starts like a fat elephant. I really should find back the CD to install the game (is the installer still working?) to speak more of this game. But I'll try anyway.

I remember that in the beginning:
- The game story telling was very heavy on insisting on amnesia. The amnesia thing was breaking everything else and was a failure to setup any suspense and raise any curiosity.
- According to the topic in the beginning, the game should have a dark mood but totally failed to achieve this and this result in a weird artificial mood.
- Characters failed to catch the interest. For the main character the amnesia make this task impossible but even the skull failed this.
- Too many places was like a duplicate of another.
- Fights was quite boring.
- I don't remember any good puzzling.

All of that was only for the beginning but enough to totally stop my attempt to play the game.

I think the difference between people that enjoyed this game and those that didn't is coming from people that succeed to pass through this horrible beginning and those that didn't.

EDIT: Another point is mixing story telling and action. For me that's where a CRPG can compete with a book despite the story telling couldn't. By "action" I mean anything else that isn't pure dialog/text reading. That could be a puzzle to solve, events that happen instead of a bunch of stupid NPC waiting passively your questions, an interesting exploring that mix well exploring with tiny puzzling to progress and story telling. It's also dialogs that mix story telling or background development with pure game information like hints on puzzling, exploration or even fighting or anything mixing practical gaming with story telling. I remember that PST beginning was very poor about all of that.

Nothing wrong with you - It's all personal. I'm just going back to play it again. I've got a lot of games. If I don't enjoy them, I put them away and play something I do enjoy. Then try again later. Whatever you're doing - HAVE FUN.

Dasale said:

- The game story telling was very heavy on insisting on amnesia. The amnesia thing was breaking everything else and was a failure to setup any suspense and raise any curiosity..

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I thought the amnesia worked really well myself. Any game you're catapulted somewhere you're unfamiliar with and need to be educated on the setting, having an amnesia dynamic is a good way of dealing with it, and unlike the standard "attacked by bandits and woke up without your memory, but from here on in no more mention of it and lets kill things" crap the amnesia was an integral part of the story throughout the whole game. Finding all those people who knew another version of you, finding out things about other times you woke up and headed off in a different direction being a different person, I thought it was very well layered into the plot. And given the underlying thing that Planescape was "about" it was used well to ask that question.

How do you do the spoiler thing by the way?

How do you do the spoiler thing by the way?

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A button just over the text box. Looks like a !

I guess it just isn't for you, Dasale. I thought the amnesia setup was perfect - my character is immortal - I've lived many different lives - but I don't remember how or why? And my quest is so important, I've even tattooed warnings on my body?

Pretty compelling idea to me.

Dasale said:

- The game story telling was very heavy on insisting on amnesia. The amnesia thing was breaking everything else and was a failure to setup any suspense and raise any curiosity.

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I agree with Benedict and Dhruin, I thought the amnesia aspect was well done. I don't see how you could claim that it didn't promote suspense or curiosity.

Dasale said:

- According to the topic in the beginning, the game should have a dark mood but totally failed to achieve this and this result in a weird artificial mood.

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I thought the mood in the beginning was very dark. You wake up in a morgue surrounded by death, with no memory of who you are or how you got there. I do understand how it could also be viewed as "weird" though.

Dasale said:

- Characters failed to catch the interest. For the main character the amnesia make this task impossible but even the skull failed this.

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If the npcs in Planescape failed to catch your interest, then you are one tough customer...

Dasale said:

- Too many places was like a duplicate of another..

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I strongly disagree, unless you're refering to the color palette.

Dasale said:

- Fights was quite boring.

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Here's an issue in which I will agree 100%. After playing Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, the combat in Torment was a snoozfest by comparison. There was very little variety in the way of enemies, as well as very few kinds of weapons and armor. Combat was definitely not PSTs strong point.

Dasale said:

- I don't remember any good puzzling.

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The entire game was a great puzzle in itself. Although I agree there wasn't an abundance of good puzzles in the sense I think you're refering to. That's not something that the Infinity Engine games were particularly known for.

For once, I agree with JDR on almost every count. The one count where I disagree are the visuals. IMO they were very much a mixed bag. The Morgue was great, parts of the Hive and the Clerk's Ward were great, some of the dungeons were OK, but most of the game past the point when you left Sigil was pretty blah, and, yes, repetitive. It's as if they ran out of time and/or money at some point and then had to fill up a lot of space really fast.

I guess the color palette is a part of it. It was a bit uniformly grimy, and could have done with some more contrast. That would've made the grime stand out more too.

JDR13 said:

I agree with Benedict and Dhruin, I thought the amnesia aspect was well done. I don't see how you could claim that it didn't promote suspense or curiosity.

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If I find back the cd and could install the game I'll investigate this. There's eventually the philosophical questions that just make me laugh and I felt them ridiculous. But well I'm probably unfair, it's a long time ago.

JDR13 said:

II thought the mood in the beginning was very dark. You wake up in a morgue surrounded by death, with no memory of who you are or how you got there. I do understand how it could also be viewed as "weird" though.

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When you talk with a kind skull and with passive skeletons walking there and there how take anything a little seriously and how have that and a dark mood?

JDR13 said:

If the npcs in Planescape failed to catch your interest, then you are one tough customer...

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Don't forget it's only about the beginning. I don't remember anything quotable there, the skull didn't work well for me, I don't remember any human traits attaching.

JDR13 said:

I strongly disagree, unless you're refering to the color palette.

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No, area design. Well decorum is a little repetitive but the problem is more area design quite basic and repetitive.

JDR13 said:

The entire game was a great puzzle in itself. Although I agree there wasn't an abundance of good puzzles in the sense I think you're refering to. That's not something that the Infinity Engine games were particularly known for.

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That last quote make me suspect that you didn't read well my post so also didn't answer well. All my comments was only for the beginning of the game, let say the first 6 area. Nothing more.

Dasale said:

That last quote make me suspect that you didn't read well my post so also didn't answer well. All my comments was only for the beginning of the game, let say the first 6 area. Nothing more.

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I read it just fine, those are simply my opinions on the game.

I thought the story was fine, but I got near the end of the game and didn't feel like i had made any meaningful choices. I hated the over-abundance of superficial combat. I really can't stand the IE games combat system and endless hordes of enemies, but if IWD is one of your favorites you can't think that.

PST is the only semi-rpg my wife has ever played besides Zelda. I think she beat it. I keep telling myself I'm going to play it till the end to see how it ends.

Well I finally got a hold of copy. I fired it up to make sure it would run ok, but didn't really play much. I did install the G3 widescreen mod so I could play it at 1024x768. Unfortunately, that makes all the videos play up in the left hand corner, not centered like in BGTuTu. No biggie though.

roqua said:

I hated the over-abundance of superficial combat.
.

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Definitely a weakness, it's something you slog through to get to the good stuff rather than something enjoyable in its own right.

I actually enjoy combat quite a lot, especially in the later stages when Dak'kon has been "unlocked/upgraded". I love fighter/mages in general.

you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't at least play until you meet the first (arguably second) *major* antagonist (the witch). you have to play through a lot of typical bs, subplot/side quest stuff before ps:t shines. but then the plot really shines. until you understand everything that's going on. and then it's kind of tedious again.

Prime Junta said:

Yup. I think I'm still in love with Fall-from-Grace. Don't tell my wife.

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LOL maybe she could understand...

blatantninja said:

Well I finally got a hold of copy. I fired it up to make sure it would run ok, but didn't really play much. I did install the G3 widescreen mod so I could play it at 1024x768. Unfortunately, that makes all the videos play up in the left hand corner, not centered like in BGTuTu. No biggie though.

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Anyone using widescreen mod should also grab either one of these (depending on what monitor you own):
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24932
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26591

Nice! Thanks!