Top 10 CRPGs of all time

JDR13 said:

What's funny is that you say you disliked the main story BG because it's a "mindless hackfest" and that the game has "too much combat", but earlier you talked about really enjoying Max Payne. :lol:

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Isn't that a matter of managing expectations

I don't like - as a genaral rule - games from the point on when the combat begins to become the overwhelming/prominent/dominating etc. factor.

There is a line I feel with this, a delicate line. For example, IWD bored me at one point because I found very little interaction, but rather combat at one point - DESPITE the good story !

On the other hand, I rather enjoyed Divinity, at least after the first dungeon, but i must say that it also has its tedious areas/moments/points etc. .

I never played BG through, but the impression I goit was this that you get as I call them "missions" ( = side-quests) which consist of combat, and these "missions" are connected with the band of the main story.

you can say this for other games as well, but in BG I felt this most.

JDR13 said:

So you don't like Baldurs Gate, you don't like Diablo 2, you don't like IWD 2. Just curious, how many games do you like?

What's funny is that you say you disliked the main story BG because it's a "mindless hackfest" and that the game has "too much combat", but earlier you talked about really enjoying Max Payne. :lol:

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The action in Max Payne is/was fun . And so is/was the story (at least I thought so when I was 14), displayed with comicstrips in between the "maps".

And I don't dislike Diablo 2, I just don't think it's an RPG. And that I think most cRPG's focus too much on combat isn't exactlly a secret...

(And just to check: RPG's I've really liked is: Fallout 1 & 2, Arcanum, Planescape: Torment, Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines (and exept Bloodlines these games were played in my early teens). I played through and somewhat liked KotOR 1 and 2. I played through the first part of Lionheart. I finnished Divine Divinity, though that was pretty Diabloish as well. But somewhat fun, for the most part. I played BG2 and kind of liked it until I lost my motivation completelly and stopped. IIRC that's it. I know I am picky, and that I lose my motivation really quick. But that doesn't make Diablo 2 an RPG! )

Übereil

txa1265 said:

Isn't that a matter of managing expectations

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Not really. You don't have too many people calling BG a mindless hackfest for a simple reason, it isn't. BG is also a game you really need to play through to the end to really appreciate. It only gets better the further you go, especially if you have the "Tales of The Sword Coast" expansion installed. Most people who find the game too hard or complain about too much combat aren't familiar with D&D rules or the D&D universe in general. Of course if you were already a D&D fan then you were more likely to enjoy the game.

I'm not saying that you needed to be a D&D fan or that you had to be familiar with it, just that it helped.

JDR13 said:

BG is also a game you really need to play through to the end to really appreciate.

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That's a problem with most of the games I didn't find to my liking: the pull just wasn't there from the start. For some reason or other, these games just didn't create the motivation I needed to want to play them through to the end. In the latter AD&D games it was mostly the uninspired settings (while I was an avid AD&D p&p player back in the days, I always found the Forgotten Realms setting to be the blandest of them all), in Dungeon Siege the lack of dialog and atmosphere, in Max Payne the bland interpretation of a modern Noir background and the bullet time feature which just didn't fit IMO.
There is another, different category of unfinished games: those which held my interest over quite some time but I found too difficult due to a lack of talent.

Perhaps it's not so much the fault of the BG games themselves but more a case of 'been there, done that', for it never happened to me during my early gaming days. The pile of unfinished games has risen to great heights over the last few years. Sometime I even reinstall the 'pull-less' games to see if they appeal to me now that some time has passed, but I still could not pursue - for example - NWN past chapter two even though many people had told me it was absolutely necessary to get past that chapter to reach the good parts.

Personally I had a lot more patience back in the days to play through a game even if it didn't seem motivating at start. These days I stop playing and uninstall it if it's not fun the first few hours. I honestly don't think games have gotten worse lately - I just think I've become more picky.

So true, Maylander.

With so many more games to choose from now- you have to be more picky.:lol:

I've also become bored, but I like to think I haven't lost my fascination with RPG. Computer RPG hasn't gotten any better. Video games in general intrigue me, but the novelty of these has worn off.

RPGs are set in dangerous worlds, and you have to wonder how that can become boring. In real life I know I'd be paying attention. But everything's being depicted in software, and I've already seen it. And I've seen it again. And again. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Right now all the game play surrounds the choices you make and the battles you survive. Fans want more variety, but what the genre really needs is innovation, IMO. Video games have to compete with our imaginations, and they need a steady pace of innovation to stay interesting.

I'd like to play a CRPG that enabled me to conduct myself in a lot more detail. I don't want to be limited to the choices I make (or that are forced on me, like combat). I want to decide how I implement all my choices. I want that kind of variety. And I want that to affect the game.

It's not just about graphics, "choices that matter," or the necessity of combat. I want a whole new paradigm that will take CRPG to the next level.

I think we have something in common here.

Interesting.

A new type of Rpg. Hmmmm. One which you doesn't induce the "been there, done that" reaction.

One possibility is a progressive Sports-Rpg hybrid.

Imagine Boxing, NBA, NHL, NFL or FIFA Soccer, where you design a character, and between and during games, the things you say and do have tremendous impact on what happens to your character's career. There could be more elaborate training options, along with extensive dialogue with teammates, owners, coaches, media and fans. Yep count me in for a Sports-Rpg hybrid.

It could extend from sports to games as well. If I'm not mistaken, there is currently work being done on a Poker Rpg.

Seems to me that our demographics is going to reflect some disallusion. One of the pivotal aspects of RPG for most gamers is immersion. (And for spreadsheet gamers like myself, the immersion is centered on character development rather than atmosphere, but still immersion) Since the majority of us aren't college students anymore, there simply aren't as many opportunities for the "6 hour marathon session". It's much harder to gain that immersion factor in 45 minute sessions, wondering the whole time if the kids are burning down the house while you're clicking away.

While I believe developers are sacrificing game play at the altar of graphics, I'd offer up that we're not giving games the same leeway we used to. If someone released "MM7.3: Copyright Infringement in a Box" today, I'm not sure it would be an all-encompassing addiction for me because I couldn't devote the time to getting, completing, and being rewarded for a promotion quest all in one sitting like I could back in the day.

Well, now that I'm retired, even though I have a lot more time to play games I find many of them disappointing, not measuring up to the days of old. I don't know if this is the game or me either. I think though, you have a point dte. Does the addiction phase that keeps you up til dawn eating cheetos come from the quality of the game experience, or from the freshness of the mind that is playing it?

As we know, it's very subjective--Is it my own jaded psyche that doesn't get excited, or is it the run-of-the-mill, force-feeding drivel that I am asked to play? I'd like to think that a really fresh crpg without the dreary formulaic approach we all know and dread, would make a difference.

Time for my input (in no particular order):

- Secret of Evermore (SNES): probably the first RPG I ever played...besides Pool of Radiance perhaps...and although it is completely linear I was still able to get completely immersed in the character and what happened to him (and his pooch). A lot more twists, turns and humour than the (very) similar FF series as well, but the biggest plus over FF was by far the music. In SoE the music varied greatly every area, with great environmental sounds as well - the tunes in the FF series used to drive me insane.

- Morrowind: all-round one of my favourite RPG's I've ever played. At the time of its release, the vastness of the land, the graphics and the multitude of quest/storylines really gripped me. Although it is certainly showing its years I still play it regularly and I still enjoy it - the two expansion packs make the whole experience last even longer (if there really is an end of course). The combat system still irrates me sometimes, but it's hardly a reason not to play it.

- Baldur's Gate II: I nearly failed my senior year in highschool because of this game. I've always been a big fan of D&D ever since Advanced D&D was released for PnP roleplaying. Although there was a lot of combat in both games, the gripping storyline and (usually) interesting party members really immersed you into the Forgotten Realms. This was especially true with BGII. Many of the sidequests of BGII were also interesting to do, many of them linked to one of your party members - I distinctly remember the "Tanner/Serial Killer" sidequest in Athkatla. The epic end to BGII was also well done: lost love is always a great motivator for evil!

- Neverwinter Nights: the OC wasn't even much fun the first time round and was plain boring if tried a second time. The gameplay, graphics engine and the toolbox made this my favourite RPG's however. I was part of the Glorwing Persistent World for over two years: intense, roleplay-based interactions; great DM's; good players vs evil players; your actions can affect the history of the world; and I made some lifelong friends at the same time...no other game will ever come close. Many of the SP modules made by the community were also incredible...I think the Dreamcatcher series was one of my favourite.

- Icewind Dale II: Much to my regret I never got around to playing the first game, which I've heard is excellent and probably better than IDII. This game came as a great surprise to me however, as I had already played NWN by the time I got it. Despite it's Baldur's Gate-esque graphics, the story and the music hooked me instantly. I was also thrilled by the idea of playing a drow and seeing the reactions from NPC's towards my character. Tough game to get through from time to time, much more difficult than BG any day, which made it all the more attractive to me.

- Vampire Bloodlines: Finally a game where it is alright to be evil. I'm not one to play evil characters in NWN or BG, but that's mostly because everybody (well, nearly everybody) will react badly towards you. These games almost force you to be good, which to be honest works in my case. I am going to play an evil alignment in my next trip through NWN2 however. Anyway, Vampire is incredibly entertaining and your choices throughout the game have a large impact on the way your character is viewed as well as the ending. The world of darkness has always fascinated me, although I could never get myself into the PnP version, I guess I'm just a closet goth! The graphics are excellent, although while not all features of the engine are used the game often runs a lot slower than Halflife 2 which uses the exact same engine (and uses a lot more effects). The storyline is enough to keep me on the edge of my seat as well, this combined with an excellent soundtrack and very different vampire clans makes this game replayble to me. And let's face it, it feels good to be bad

- Planescape: Torment. If I did make a top 10 this game would most likely be number one. Graphics, music and storyline aside, what counts most for me is how "involved" I can get with my character. For some twisted reason I could relate incredibly well to the Nameless One - probably due to the incredible depth the developers gave to the character rather than my own life experiences. I remember finally reaching the end, and when it was all over I just sat back, not quite comprehending what had just happened. No other game has come close.

That's all the games I can think of right now - the ones I'd want on my list anyway. I've never played the Gothic series (don't hurt me pls) or any of the older DOS games (except Pool of Radiance - was that even DOS?). When I get back to Europe I'll be sure to check these out however as many of you seem to carry these in high esteem.

Arpyjee said:

One possibility is a progressive Sports-Rpg hybrid.

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Ever seen "Chaos League" ?

I think I proved to myself that I still have the stamina even if I will soon be 30. I have during summer played Final Fantasy 7-10 in a row. It have taken me 7 weeks of playing non-stop without any real break. Still 17 days to I must go back to my studies but maybe I can finish X-2 before that.

Regarding the thread... I have played so many RPG's now that it's difficult to pick good ones over another.

I enjoy watching people play the final fantasy series..but not playing them..due to the random battles and drawn out sequences each time a battle ensues. (My pet hate is random battles..especially too many of them).
Recently I've been having fun playing lots of NWN mods..much better than the OC..still about 500 to try.

.nevermind.

JemyM said:

I think I proved to myself that I still have the stamina even if I will soon be 30. I have during summer played Final Fantasy 7-10 in a row. It have taken me 7 weeks of playing non-stop without any real break. Still 17 days to I must go back to my studies but maybe I can finish X-2 before that.

Regarding the thread... I have played so many RPG's now that it's difficult to pick good ones over another.

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I'm going to award you a medal if you finish FF X-2.

Because then you will have officially finished all of the shitty games in the FF series.

JemyM said:

.nevermind.

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I know .... I know ...

One thing I will say after just replaying Final Fantasy I on the PSP is that too many random battles are a royal pain in the butt ...