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Default BioWare - On Day 1 DLC

March 19th, 2010, 15:26
Ars Technica has a quote from BioWare's Casey Hudson on the legitimacy of Day 1 DLC:
We spoke with Casey Hudson, the project director for Mass Effect 2, at GDC. He's a man who knows a little bit about post-release content, and he explained it in a way that makes sense. The simple answer? It takes time to get discs into the hands of gamers.
"People may not be aware of it, and people may say if you have content available day one, why not put it onto disc? What goes out on disc, it takes about 12 weeks to debug and certify and get into the trucks to go out into stores," he explained. "That gives us a period of 8 to 12 weeks where we can make content, but we can't put it onto the disc because it's already out there. But we can insert it digitally, day one."
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March 19th, 2010, 15:26
Others use these 8-12 weeks to test a game and "write" "day one patches".

I'm not saying they don't do it at Bioware/EA, but I just wanted to throw this in.

Maybe they have two distinct groups there at EA/Bioware, one for patching, one for "doing content", so then it would work, too.

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March 19th, 2010, 16:13
In my opinion, day 1 DLC isn't a problem.

The problem with DLC is that it's too easily used to exploit the impulsive purchase mindset, and the idea that a game isn't "complete" without all available DLC.

As with most things that I consider wrong with the market, the responsibility lies on both sides.
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March 19th, 2010, 17:29
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
The problem with DLC is that it's too easily used to exploit the impulsive purchase mindset…"
I don't really see a problem with that. Every consumer can choose to control their impulse or let it control them.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
…and the idea that a game isn't "complete" without all available DLC.
On this point I am in agreement with you. I am accutley, and specifically, watching carefully at DLC abuses in this particular area. I expect DLC to eventually become very abusive. I susupect there have already been games with DLC that had previously been part of the main game but were pulled out as DLC prior to the main game shipping. No way to prove it, but I'm sure it's happened.

I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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March 19th, 2010, 17:43
I'll admit it's largely a problem of perception.

So far these Day 1 DLCs have felt like they were intentionally left out. It doesn't help when some of the features were promised parts of the original game, cut out then re-released as day 1 dlc, that doesn't look good to the average user. ex: DAO: Stone Prisoner

A free bonus to encourage legit purchasers? The only problem with that excuse is the pirates have already cracked your DLC too. I think it's more likely to get you comfortable with the DLC process in hopes you're more willing to purchase their overpriced DLC later.

Charging for it? That's a no-no. People just spent $50, they don't want to get home and see the "rest of the game" is going to cost another $10.
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March 19th, 2010, 17:57
First off, the Stone Prisoner DLC for DA:O was not supposed to be a Day 1 DLC. It only became that when the PC release of the game was postponed due to having to wait for the console versions to be finished.

Secondly, imagine what could have happened if Obsidian had been able to use DLCs to reintegrate some, if not all, of the cut sections of KotOR 2 at a later point. I can understand the apprehension towards DLCs that is prevalent on a site like this where most things new are considered bad and terms like the "good ole days" are not used in joking , but there is also plenty of potential in DLCs and most importantly: you can choose not to get them.

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March 19th, 2010, 19:42
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I don't really see a problem with that. Every consumer can choose to control their impulse or let it control them.
The problem is that many consumers don't control their impulses, which means it will be exploited. There's a difference between doing what's right, and doing what you can get away with.

That so many consumers fail to control their impulses - means they set a standard that will hurt everyone. Because if developers can get away with trivial content for a significant price - they will.

If we all agreed that maximising profit was the ultimate goal, then I see your point. But we don't all agree with that.
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March 19th, 2010, 19:44
Day 1 DLC is great! If you bought the game to get "X" you have no reason to complain if X is what you got *and* "Y" is being tossed in for free.

As for impulse buys, well, too bad. Just say No.
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March 19th, 2010, 20:07
Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
As for impulse buys, well, too bad. Just say No.
It doesn't help saying no, if the majority says yes.

That means developers will focus on cheap trivial content, charging what they feel like to generate a good profit.

Which in turn means we won't get decent expansions like we're used to, as they're far too expensive compared to the alternative to create.

I know I can say no to crap content and I fully intend to, but that's not the point.

The point is that if enough people say yes, there will be much less quality content overall - so it wouldn't hurt thinking a bit more about this before greenlighting the concept and supporting it.
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March 19th, 2010, 20:16
What is really shitty is when publishers start doing something like Bioshock 2 and thinking that it is ok…
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March 19th, 2010, 20:31
Yeah, I read about that a few days ago and was going to start a thread about it. Pretty detestable imo.
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March 19th, 2010, 20:36
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
Every consumer can choose to control their impulse or let it control them.
You refute your own comment here. If one is "controlled" one have no choice.

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March 19th, 2010, 20:46
of course this all falls apart when you consider Bioshock's 2 Day 1 DLC, which was already included in the disk and the 'DLC' was just like 500k to activate it.
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March 19th, 2010, 22:47
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Secondly, imagine what could have happened if Obsidian had been able to use DLCs to reintegrate some, if not all, of the cut sections of KotOR 2 at a later point. I can understand the apprehension towards DLCs that is prevalent on a site like this where most things new are considered bad and terms like the "good ole days" are not used in joking , but there is also plenty of potential in DLCs and most importantly: you can choose not to get them.
KotOR2 would be an entirely different animal, and somewhere I hope DLC never goes. So much was cut from that game the plot barely made sense any more. The ending was atrocious. The only thing missing from KotOR2 that could even be considered DLC worthy might have been the robot planet which I believe was cut very early and not integral to the plot.

I'm not concerned if a company decides to release DLC, my concern is value for the dollar and that quality content isn't going to be produced anymore in favor of quick dollars DLC. I compare a huge expansion pack like Hordes of the Underdark for $20 compared to horse armor for $5 or Wardens Keep for $15 (?). Also, a lot of this stuff used to get patched in by the good companies, now, why patch it in if they can sell it for $5.

Imagine if TF2 sold every character achievement pack and the alternate weapons for $5 per character class. Sounds horrible right?
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March 20th, 2010, 00:22
Originally Posted by Korplem View Post
What is really shitty is when publishers start doing something like Bioshock 2 and thinking that it is ok…
The economic principle of DLC is to sell relatively cheaper to produce goods at a relatively higher price. This is why the gaming industry is such a big fan of it, and how it's helped the industry avoid some of the worst of the financial crisis.

Whether or not DLC is actually on the disc, day 1, or day 100, doesn't matter one bit to the cold hard fact: you are paying more to get relatively less. I really, really don't understand the outrage people have towards content already being on the disc, the financial principles are exactly the same.
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March 20th, 2010, 00:34
lol @ bioshock 2 thing. And I couldn't imagine anyone could go lower than benthesa did with their horse armour plugin. Lol it was so hilariously cheap that I can laugh at it even today, hahah And do you guys remember the spell tomes, not much better either.
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March 20th, 2010, 03:03
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
Whether or not DLC is actually on the disc, day 1, or day 100, doesn't matter one bit to the cold hard fact: you are paying more to get relatively less. I really, really don't understand the outrage people have towards content already being on the disc, the financial principles are exactly the same.
It's true that when someone buys DLC they are not getting the same quantity to dollars ratio but, to me at least, it just seems down right crooked to have some shmuck buy a game disc for $60 then another $5 for something already on the disc. They could at least pretend that the day one release wasn't cut out of the original game like BioWare does.

BioWare's recent excuse was that there was ~12 weeks between the disc going to the presses and to the stores and that allowed them to have a day one DLC. What excuse does 2K have?
Last edited by Korplem; March 20th, 2010 at 03:14.
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March 20th, 2010, 03:16
Originally Posted by Korplem View Post
but, to me at least, it just seems down right crooked to have some shmuck buy a game disc for $60 then another $5 for something already on the disc.
Why? What difference does it make? The content they worked on took as many hours to produce whether it is on the disc or not. What's the difference?
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March 20th, 2010, 04:18
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
Why? What difference does it make? The content they worked on took as many hours to produce whether it is on the disc or not. What's the difference?
The differance is that 2K decided to keep parts of the finished product unlocked and asked money for it. Not to add extra's.
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March 20th, 2010, 04:35
If youre just trying to be thought provoking, you have already made your point. But, if you really, honestly, cannot see anything wrong with it then I don't think I have the words to explain it. I'll try some examples…

Say a game controller has 6 buttons. 5 of them work out of the box but for the 6th you'd have to pay to activate it. That just doesn't seem right. It's already there, the manufacturer is simply obviously milking you for money.

Or, I buy a car and there are cup holders built into it. The problem is that there is a magic force field preventing me from putting my cup there. I have to pay the dealership more to use them, even though they are already there. Doesn't seem right.

I know, stupid examples…
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