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July 6th, 2012, 21:31
Secrets hidden


Is the day when the scientists are able to know what the man is thinking of and what he is hiding from people coming? This is what the scientists hope but what is the truth? Let us read?

Scientists from Britain, Germany and Japan finally managed to read the mind and what the person think of! They have used imaging device using magnetic resonance, (Magnetic Resonance Imaging MRI) after doing many amazing experiments.

They have asked a person a question which has the answer of either yes or no, and the MRI always showed the area of the brain related to the question. If the answer is yes, a specific area in the brain will be activated and the device will immediately detect this activation, whereas if the answer is no, another area of the brain will be activated and consequently detected by the device.



A real photo of the brain taken by MRI showing the activation of specific areas of the brain during thinking of a certain matter, each area is specialized with one type of ideas. When a man is asked a question like, do you love this person or not?, The device detects the area responsible for yes or no answer before the man answers, as soon as thinking starts, the device will detect the answer and show on a computer monitor the glowing area of the brain from which the answer can be detected!! Surely using software specialized for this purpose.

Therefore, this device is used to tell you what you think of!! But the experiment still in the primary stage and the question is: can scientists one day reach to know all things the men think of?

Professor, Colin Blakemore says "we should not be very optimist at this stage, because experiments are at the start of the way. However, other scientists say that we could read people's mind and intentions and know their passion and plans.

Anyway, dear reader, I do not think that these experiments will develop on large scale, as Allah the Almighty says: "Allh knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal" (19: Gafir). this noble verse confirms that hidden things of the person is known by nobody except Allah, the Almighty, but techniques may develop and enable scientists from reading some of the person's mind through the brain but will not be able to know for example the person's tenet.

the purpose of this thread is

allah alone
Know
Any person

In what to think


allah says in the Quran
34. Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends
down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware (of things).



59. And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none
knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record.

60. It is He, Who takes your souls by night (when you are asleep), and has knowledge of all that you have done by day, then he raises (wakes) you up again that a term appointed (your life period) be fulfilled, then in the end unto Him will be your return. Then He will inform you what you used to do.
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July 7th, 2012, 00:15
Let's see, the Quran was written by a known Paedophile (he married a 9 year old girl afterall), so I guess he didn't want people to know HIS hidden secrets!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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July 7th, 2012, 00:42
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Let's see, the Quran was written by a known Paedophile (he married a 9 year old girl afterall), so I guess he didn't want people to know HIS hidden secrets!!
Corwin, you make a new definition of trolling, hahahahahahhahaa


kudos, man! can't wait to sell this on another site when some zealot comes…
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July 7th, 2012, 10:06
That's utter bull toty.

My sister had her first period when she was 10 but though that meant that she was then biologically able to bear children it sure as hell didn't change the fact that she was still a 10 year old CHILD.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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July 7th, 2012, 12:23
That scientists are using magnetic resonance fields to detect brain activity is mothing new … More creepy was the report of them trying to reproduce the movie a person had seen dfrom these "brtain scans" someho … I really have no idea how this would be possible. I even doubt it although it was in our local newspaper …

However, usung magnetic resonance fields as detectors for truth are something that could happen in the future.

The only problem lies in the fact that some people kind of believe their own lies. Which makes them harder to detect (the lies, not the people).

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
That's utter bull toty.

My sister had her first period when she was 10 but though that meant that she was then biologically able to bear children it sure as hell didn't change the fact that she was still a 10 year old CHILD.
Yes, but scientists suspect a lot of factors slowly pushing everything into an earlier age of possible sexual reproduction - from a biological point of view.

Especially several kinds of plastic bottles, for example, are suspectec to emenate … "stuff" that acts like female hormones in human and in animal bodies.

Unfortunately Wikipedia doesn't say much about it (result of plastic lobbyists working ?) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic#Toxicity

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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July 7th, 2012, 12:42
That's not the point Alrik.

Even if puberty sets in at 10 and the BODY therefore is able to reproduce, the girl is still only 10 years old with a MENTAL state/capacity of a child.

There are indeed many reports about all kinds of crap that creates hormone imbalance in human beings but hormones mainly affect your physical traits, not your mental maturity.

There is a reason our laws for sexual legality is based on age and not whether or not you've hit puberty. In Denmark that age is 15 years old …. that's 6 years older than Aisha toty, which means that had "the prophet" been alive today he would have been thrown in jail as a pedophile just as Corwin said.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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July 7th, 2012, 13:31
While Toty appears to have a child-like level of general experience, I cannot see any reference in Toty's post that suggests that someone should have sex with children and I do not see where modern ethics applied to ancient writers apply to their writings.

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July 7th, 2012, 17:27
When millions of people around the world are basing their lives on texts completely out of touch with the world they're currently living in I would dare say that a bit of perspective is VERY important.

Follow the links in toty's second post if you want a nonsense lecture on how it is perfectly alright to marry a child.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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July 7th, 2012, 18:27
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
When millions of people around the world are basing their lives on texts completely out of touch with the world they're currently living in I would dare say that a bit of perspective is VERY important.
On that we can agree.

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Follow the links in toty's second post if you want a nonsense lecture on how it is perfectly alright to marry a child.
No, that is not what the 2nd video is about. It builds a strong and solid case against marrying a child within Islamic faith, provides the viewer with a history lesson that is as far as I can tell accurate and finally points out the hypocrisy of such criticisms with actual data from various western countries. I actually skipped the links before you pointed this out and now after having a look I was a bit amazed how well argued they were. I also followed the link to the actual document and had a look at the references and I have to say it was a breath of fresh air. I as an academic would be proud to debate a such scholar because when it comes to provide actual references and facts to support your position, who ever put this together did what the vast majority of western apologetics do not.

Misrepresenting information the way you did help no one.

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July 7th, 2012, 19:25
I have to admit that after having seen the first one I skipped the second one after a few seconds, so there: you caught me

Even now I haven't bothered to see it all the way through because it is still flawed/irrelevant. Yes it is true that the western world was no better at the same time, but that doesn't make it "perfectly okay" for a 52 year old man to take for his 9th wife a 9 year old girl.

I don't care what the norm was back then, but as long as the Muslim world wants to deify the "prophet" Mohammed then every aspects of his life becomes divine, including bedding children.

Finally, let's not forget that many of the pros mentioned in the video, like parental consent, parental guidance, social support and so forth, is actually very often the exact opposite: absolute parental control/pressure and social pressure if you don't conform … but then I mustn't forget that I'm currently debating with a person where text books and scientific journals are a lot more important than real life

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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July 7th, 2012, 22:59
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
but that doesn't make it "perfectly okay" for a 52 year old man to take for his 9th wife a 9 year old girl.
It isn't.

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
but as long as the Muslim world wants to deify the "prophet" Mohammed then every aspects of his life becomes divine, including bedding children.
To be nitpicky, actually it's in many areas forbidden to do so since that would be to put Mohammed above Allah which is bad. That said, they do idolize Mohammed as a rolemodel which isn't something I believe is a good idea.

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
Finally, let's not forget that many of the pros mentioned in the video, like parental consent, parental guidance, social support and so forth, is actually very often the exact opposite: absolute parental control/pressure and social pressure if you don't conform …
When I said "I as an academic would be proud to debate a such scholar" I meant that the video is actually wrong at a couple of points and with the opportunity I would be interested to hear how the person behind the video would be able to hold up if challenged on those points.

To me personally the greatest problem with groups who believe they are naturally good is that they begin to hide and ignore the bad within it that naturally occurs in all groups. They have to because if they do not everything they built on falls apart. That involves a blame game where they begin to seek for scapegoats or reject people who aren't considered "true members" etc.

I do not believe Islamic faith is any better than other religions. No group is 110% bad and corrupt, it have to do a few things right to succeed. The problem is that groups like that tend to try to live on those things and do not try to fix the bad. Some of them still adapt, although adapt slowly and with weak arguments. Note for example the following bit;

In fact, because of the contemporary delay in maturity, marriage at puberty today would violate 6 basic Islamic rules:

1) “Rushd”, psychological maturity, or “prudent judgement” is required before marriage.
2) No one should harm anyone else.
3) People’s best interests must be observed.
4) No one should bear any burden beyond their capacity.
5) Governments and guardians are entrusted to act correctly.
6) Compliance to “urf”, new social norms that are considered good.
Note how 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 rely own personal opinions and basically means "throw the Qur'an out of the window and follow" … "reason, science and modern secular insight and knowledge" or "your own opinion". Especially 6 makes the Qur'an completely void.

Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
but then I mustn't forget that I'm currently debating with a person where text books and scientific journals are a lot more important than real life
People do not cease to be human because they study.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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July 7th, 2012, 23:22
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
People do not cease to be human because they study.
That might be impressive if you came off as more intelligent, but you don't demonstrate any more knowledge than most of the other people that regularly post here. You do manage to come off as more arrogant than most others though.
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July 7th, 2012, 23:45
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Let's see, the Quran was written by a known Paedophile (he married a 9 year old girl afterall), so I guess he didn't want people to know HIS hidden secrets!!
I read that their prophet (as they also call Jesus and Moses and all other messengers) did not know how to read or write, and this is well documented, so how can he write the Quran?

Also, is there any evidance that he had intercourse with this girl at 9, and did he bring any children from her?
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July 8th, 2012, 08:39
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
To be nitpicky, actually it's in many areas forbidden to do so since that would be to put Mohammed above Allah which is bad. That said, they do idolize Mohammed as a rolemodel which isn't something I believe is a good idea.
I know and the whole concept of the rule against depicting Mohammed in drawings/paintings was to avoid the Christian trinity confusion where even devout Christians can't figure out where the son ends and the father begins let alone find a place for the holy spirit.

The point was to avoid a deification of Mohammed yet when you look at the Muslim world's reaction the "Mohammed drawings" incident a few years it becomes VERY clear that a LARGE part of them consider the prophet to be no less holy than Jesus. Epic Fail!

Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
When I said "I as an academic would be proud to debate a such scholar" I meant that the video is actually wrong at a couple of points and with the opportunity I would be interested to hear how the person behind the video would be able to hold up if challenged on those points.
Then I admit that I misunderstood what you meant. Sorry about that.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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July 8th, 2012, 18:03
Anyway, dear reader, I do not think that these experiments will develop on large scale, as Allah the Almighty says: "Allh knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal" (19: Gafir). this noble verse confirms that hidden things of the person is known by nobody except Allah, the Almighty, but techniques may develop and enable scientists from reading some of the person's mind through the brain but will not be able to know for example the person's tenet.
Huh??? That verse does no such thing. Saying that Allah knows something does not mean that only Allah knows something. What's more, it is speaking in the present-tense. Maybe Allah was the only one who knew back then but that doesn't mean it will always be true.
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July 8th, 2012, 18:17
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
The point was to avoid a deification of Mohammed yet when you look at the Muslim world's reaction the "Mohammed drawings" incident a few years it becomes VERY clear that a LARGE part of them consider the prophet to be no less holy than Jesus. Epic Fail!.
This supports my theory that reason cannot stop behavior first hand (avoiding an action through reason, like "I won't buy unhealthy food because it makes me fat"), only second hand (use reason to avoiding what cause your action, like "do not shop when hungry").

Promote writings as the ultimate good without critically examining them and the writer will be deified no matter what the rules are. The only way to not do so is to not promote writings as the ultimate good in the first place.

People who deify Buddha and Marx/Lenin/Stalin are just the same. Even the writers explicit order not to deify them or build religions in their name are eventually ignored.

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July 8th, 2012, 22:13
Originally Posted by fatBastard() View Post
The point was to avoid a deification of Mohammed yet when you look at the Muslim world's reaction the "Mohammed drawings" incident a few years it becomes VERY clear that a LARGE part of them consider the prophet to be no less holy than Jesus. Epic Fail!.
I feel that this was a mis-reaction triggered by human nature in defence to a loved one (I am sure they would have reacted the same if the drawings were of Ibraham, Ishmail, Issac, Jacob, Mosses, Jesus .. etc. since the believe in all of them). In doing so they have missed the core of Mohammed message in that he was just a human messenger of god's message, and it is the message that is important not him. I have read that he re-iterated that himself many times and particularly during the last sermon during his last peligrimage. I have also read that priesthood in Islam is not allowed as there should not be any mediary between you and god, and that it is up to people to consult their hearts to decide what is right and what is wrong, once they have been told by their holy books.
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July 8th, 2012, 23:14
A couple of years back a famous Swedish writer did a radioshow on her relationship with Jesus. Most of the 25 minutes long show used letter-by-letter biblequotes that when told in that order built the impression that Jesus was a powerhungry narcissistic sectarian leader who used power-techniques to control, diminish and shatter the followers who loved and trusted him. When Judas finally turned on him it was almost an heroic revenge where the abused turned on his abuser.

Naturally there was a ton of people who reported the radio show as religious hatred, arguing that they had been offended and even hurt by the show. Hurt because it attacked someone they love. Problem was that all she really did was quoting the bible, doing what any priest would do, just using the passages priests never use and built a strong and bible-supported case for the personality of Jesus.

Thing is, when "good" is commonly associated with a book that no one reads, and a character who no one reads about, he or she is continously lifted up to divine propportions. When finally faced he or she is a let down. Sometimes only reading more about ones "hero" is enough to shatter the mirror after we spent a long time attaching our own idealistic ideas about "good" to someone else.

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An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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July 8th, 2012, 23:22
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
A couple of years back a famous Swedish writer did a radioshow on her relationship with Jesus. Most of the 25 minutes long show used letter-by-letter biblequotes that when told in that order built the impression that Jesus was a powerhungry narcissistic sectarian leader who used power-techniques to control, diminish and shatter the followers who loved and trusted him. When Judas finally turned on him it was almost an heroic revenge where the abused turned on his abuser.

Naturally there was a ton of people who reported the radio show as religious hatred, arguing that they had been offended and even hurt by the show. Hurt because it attacked someone they love. Problem was that all she really did was quoting the bible, doing what any priest would do, just using the passages priests never use and built a strong and bible-supported case for the personality of Jesus.

Thing is, when "good" is commonly associated with a book that no one reads, and a character who no one reads about, he or she is continously lifted up to divine propportions. When finally faced he or she is a let down. Sometimes only reading more about ones "hero" is enough to shatter the mirror after we spent a long time attaching our own idealistic ideas about "good" to someone else.
If I understood you correctly, then you have hit the nail on the head, shot the arrow through the centre of the apple and so forth. In that I think that you have said that one needs to read and educate oneself about the 'people' that one think are divine and the message (if there is any) that they are delivering before following them blindly.
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