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Default Dungeon Siege 3 - Preview @ G4TV

August 27th, 2010, 16:14
Omega points out a preview of Dungeon Siege 3 at G4TV. As with the other articles so far, the details are light. Once again, the graphics seem to stand out to the previewers:
Dungeon Siege 3 is a beautiful game. Between the varied color palette and the impressive depth of field effects when looking down through vertical layers of the level, it's a feast for the eyes. This vertical perspective is something the developers at Obsidian were keen to highlight during the eyes-on demonstration. The level that was being shown, along with others throughout the game, were built so that it has a tremendous feeling of vertical depth.

This means that you're looking down through a level and you feel like you're moving deeper into the world as you progress. The effect is so good that I had to ask the developers whether the areas I was looking at were really traversable, or whether they were background. They answered my question by winding their way down through the level to the areas that a few moments ago looked so far below.
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August 27th, 2010, 16:14
Bah, why does shit always have a sequel and good things end? DS was always such a borin tunnel-run. *__*
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August 27th, 2010, 16:30
Originally Posted by elikal View Post
Bah, why does rubbish always have a sequel and good things end? DS was always such a borin tunnel-run. *__*
Did you play DS2?

In general though I'd guess it's because not enough people who agree with you buy what you think are good games, while enough people buy in your opinion rubbish games that it makes them commercially viable. Ie, you have a minority view and need to make up for it by either spending more than otherwise on games, or by creating your own games.
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August 28th, 2010, 02:22
For the same reason there are so many McDonald's restaurants…
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August 30th, 2010, 12:09
Pretty graphics do not a good game make. What worries me the most about this new game are the controls. Dungeon Seige 1 & 2 had wonderful game controls.

Does anybody know if this new game has kept the mouse controls from the first two games? Or has the console port completely screwed the game controls for the PC market?
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August 30th, 2010, 12:11
Originally Posted by Majnun View Post
For the same reason there are so many McDonald's restaurants…
Absolute garbage. Tried it one time after many years and couldnt believe people actually eat crap like that.

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August 30th, 2010, 12:15
Have we lost faith in Obsidian already?

Nah, I think this has the potential to be a good game. Though, I base this on nothing but my faith in the developers.

DS2 was pretty good, but suffered from horribly linear character development - despite being infinitely better than in DS1. But the rest of the game was great for the genre, and the story wasn't bad.
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August 30th, 2010, 13:38
Originally Posted by Tiptoe View Post
Pretty graphics do not a good game make. What worries me the most about this new game are the controls. Dungeon Seige 1 & 2 had wonderful game controls.

Does anybody know if this new game has kept the mouse controls from the first two games? Or has the console port completely screwed the game controls for the PC market?
I'm pretty sure they've stated on the forums that the PC will have mouse controls (no idea if they're the same as the older games though).
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August 30th, 2010, 15:07
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Absolute garbage. Tried it one time after many years and couldnt believe people actually eat crap like that.
I was inveted recently. I was eating McDonalds stuff for the first time in … I think at least 5-7 years.

No matter what you say about it, I found it very tasty.

But I don't eat it on a regular basis, you know ?

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August 30th, 2010, 17:21
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I was inveted recently. I was eating McDonalds stuff for the first time in … I think at least 5-7 years.

No matter what you say about it, I found it very tasty.

But I don't eat it on a regular basis, you know ?
Once per 7 years sounds correct. Just to remind how bad it is.

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August 30th, 2010, 21:26
Originally Posted by Starwars View Post
I'm pretty sure they've stated on the forums that the PC will have mouse controls (no idea if they're the same as the older games though).
I think the PC Gamer preview I saw talked about one player using mouse and keyboard alongside another using a gamepad. I'm guessing that was co-op on the same PC, which would be cool.
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August 31st, 2010, 07:52
I think Dungeon Siege II was a tremendous improvement over Dungeon Siege, much more in the style of RPG's I like (more Baldur's Gate light than a party-based Diablo-clone).

Only Dragon Age and Morrowind had as much attention to fleshing out the world, it's lore, history, culture and flora/fauna. It even had companions with their own background story and sidequests, which is uncommon to see outside Black Isle/Bioware. Unfortunate they returned to the old formula in the expansion, which was very sad. If Dungeon Siege 3 is like Dungeon Siege 2, then I am going for it. If it's like the expansion or Dungeon Siege 1, I might skip it like I skipped Titan Quest, Silverfall, Sacred 2 etc.

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August 31st, 2010, 07:59
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Have we lost faith in Obsidian already?
I have pondered about this, and I think I have cooled down in my faith to Obsidian.

Obsidian are strong at building good stories, but every sequel they made of others games have been inferior. KOTOR2 might not have been their fault of course, Neverwinter Nights 2 was semi-decent but mostly a disappointment to me (lack of customization and ease of adding new content made the idea of building your own stuff with the toolset obsolete, and the ending was one of the worst I have seen). Mask of the Betrayer was a definite improvement, but it was also a small expansion.

I have yet to play Alpha Protocol, but what I heard about it makes me believe that going from tactical/strategical/rpg gameplay into action, was a bad idea.

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August 31st, 2010, 10:16
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I have pondered about this, and I think I have cooled down in my faith to Obsidian.

Obsidian are strong at building good stories, but every sequel they made of others games have been inferior. KOTOR2 might not have been their fault of course, Neverwinter Nights 2 was semi-decent but mostly a disappointment to me (lack of customization and ease of adding new content made the idea of building your own stuff with the toolset obsolete, and the ending was one of the worst I have seen). Mask of the Betrayer was a definite improvement, but it was also a small expansion.

I have yet to play Alpha Protocol, but what I heard about it makes me believe that going from tactical/strategical/rpg gameplay into action, was a bad idea.
I'm not a big story guy, really.

In my opinion, Obsidian is one of the VERY few well-funded developers left that still caters to the old-school crowd, if only partially so.

Primarily in terms of game mechanics, and a solid understanding of entertaining game design.

Very few (big) developers today, understand what makes a game entertaining beyond merely on the surface. So, they copy/paste games from the past - or games with success - without really knowing what they're doing.

Bioware, for instance, have been copying themselves over and over - making a blueprint of a "successful" game, but they've completely lost touch (or interest) in what ACTUALLY works. They even claimed Mass Effect 2 was the best game they ever made!!!

Such is the case with the vast majority of AAA developers, because they're lost in the cycle of business, perpetuating the problems of greed versus art.

In effect, they've become fantastic salesmen - but lousy game designers.

I wonder… should we call this: "The Masses Effect"
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August 31st, 2010, 10:30
I agree with that statement, DArtagnan. After checking the site http://blog.brainhex.com I have been convinced that a flaw in many designers is the attempt to find an universal one-size-fits-all kind of game, when it used to be that there are gamers with different interests, thus made different branches of games. In attempt to streamline a game to fit everyone, you will simply scale away more and more archetypes.

Mass Effect 2 had one of the strongest stories ever, one of the strongest, most epic, most emotional game I played. Gameplay though, was like eating light vanilla. Nothing new and not near the quality of the games it tried to copy. It's an irony that Mass Effect 1's equipment system was so horribly bad, that it was a definite improvement to cut it out entirely from it's sequel.

Dragon Age, on the other hand, was very strong on gameplay, that drew from much experience in how to create a challenging, tactical and advanced game, without dumbing it down. It definitely adheres to those minds who do not seek easily digested entertainment, but something they can participate in themselves. From what I heard in DA2, they are making light-vanilla out of that too. A story to be digested rather than a game in which you as a gamer decide how to play.

A friend who previously played ME2 while I did, asked me what choice I made in the ending of Dragon Age. There are several endings and your choice really matter there. That reminded me of when we played Fallout 2 and spoke for hours upon hours on how we played the game, what characters we made, what choices we made, what peculiar content we found etc. When the "Tactician" achievement popped up on my screen I felt strongly rewarded, because I definitely played Dragon Age in my own unique way, still my playstyle was supported by the developers. The amount of choices in how to play the game, what to do in every situation, what kind of character to play, was incredible.

We never ever spoke about that in ME2 because there were ultimately only two ways to play the game; light blue or orange. You didn't really play ME2, it was served to you. Instead of picking from a menu, ME2 was like food on an airplane, you could pick one out of two prepacked dishes. This means that no matter what you picked, your choice did never really matter in the end. You made as much choice as you would have done if you optioned to see Aliens or Terminator 2. Your dish was exactly the same as about 50% of the rest on the plane.

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An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
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August 31st, 2010, 10:40
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I agree with that statement, DArtagnan. After checking the site http://blog.brainhex.com I have been convinced that a flaw in many designers is the attempt to find an universal one-size-fits-all kind of game, when it used to be that there are gamers with different interests, thus made different branches of games. In attempt to streamline a game to fit everyone, you will simply scale away more and more archetypes.
Yeah, and it's a simple enough thing to realise why.

It's no longer the passion of the artist driving development, it's the business that's calling the shots.

Not necessarily a bad thing, objectively speaking, but a horrible thing from my point of view.

Developers are asking themselves: "What do people want?"

They should be asking: "What do WE want?"

Mass Effect 2 had one of the strongest stories ever, one of the strongest, most epic, most emotional game I played. Gameplay though, was like eating light vanilla. Nothing new and not near the quality of the games it tried to copy. It's an irony that Mass Effect 1's equipment system was so horribly bad, that it was a definite improvement to cut it out entirely from it's sequel.
Well, you seem like more of a story guy than myself - so I won't bog the discussion down with how I wasn't really impressed with the story of ME2. That said, it was a very convincing cinematic experience, even if I much preferred the first game - in that sense. The first game has stuck with me, where as the second is all but forgotten by now.

Dragon Age, on the other hand, was very strong on gameplay, that drew from much experience in how to create a challenging, tactical and advanced game, without dumbing it down. It definitely adheres to those minds who do not seek easily digested entertainment, but something they can participate in themselves. From what I heard in DA2, they are making light-vanilla out of that too. A story to be digested rather than a game in which you as a gamer decide how to play.
You must remember that Dragon Age was started aaaages ago, when Bioware wasn't absorbed by the business aspect - to the same extent. So, the game is sort of a mish-mash of the old with the new.

Personally, I think the gameplay was a significant step down from Baldur's Gate 2 - and I found it shock-full of cookie cutter combat setups. The primary weakness of the game was the lack of diversity in terms of character development.

Then again, I'm still not a story guy - so that aspect, while admittedly fantastic, didn't really make up for the grindy feeling of combat entirely.

A friend who previously played ME2 while I did, asked me what choice I made in the ending of the game. That reminded me of when we played Fallout 2 and spoke for hours upon hours on how we played the game, what characters we made, what choices we made, what peculiar content we found etc. We never ever spoke about that in ME2 because there were ultimately only two ways to play the game; light blue or orange. You didn't really play ME2, it was served to you. Instead of picking from a menu, ME2 was like food on an airplane, you could pick one out of two prepacked dishes. This means that no matter what you picked, your choice did never really matter in the end. You made as much choice as you would have done if you optioned to see Aliens or Terminator 2.
Oh, I agree entirely

Except that Aliens is brilliant and Terminator 2 is mainstream crap, released after Cameron went "Bioware"
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August 31st, 2010, 12:03
I post this not to argue but because I'm always amazed by the range of different experiences.

From my perspective…

KotOR 2 added nuance to the predictable, cardboard-cutout characters of KotOR.
NWN2 added proper parties to that godawful almost-Diablo gameplay of NWN.
Mask of the Betrayer is one of the best RPGs of the last decade. End of story.
Alpha Protocol was flawed but also brilliant and I still marvel at the range of possibilities.

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August 31st, 2010, 12:36
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
KotOR 2 added nuance to the predictable, cardboard-cutout characters of KotOR.
Playing KOTOR2 and reading Nietzsche made me question and later change my core values. That said, KOTOR1 have the greatest twist I have seen in a computer game.

Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
NWN2 added proper parties to that godawful almost-Diablo gameplay of NWN.
I deeply enjoyed the party gameplay in NWN2, but I only played NWN1 in multiplayer where as both the NWN expansions were limited to a party of 3. It's just the ending that ticked me off, and I didn't think the keep system worked well. Also I was kinda disappointed over the romance options, but Khelgar Ironfist is one of the most memorable companions I know.

Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Mask of the Betrayer is one of the best RPGs of the last decade. End of story.
It's true. But it is an expansion, and expansions tend to use an already existing toolset. It's also rather small in scale.

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August 31st, 2010, 14:17
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
That said, KOTOR1 have the greatest twist I have seen in a computer game.
I thought it was pedestrian. Didn't work for me at all. *shrug*

It's true. But it is an expansion, and expansions tend to use an already existing toolset. It's also rather small in scale.
I don't see what using an existing toolset has to do with anything. It's also longer than, say, Fallout 1 - one of my favourite all time games.

Anyway, just a different point of view.

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August 31st, 2010, 16:26
I mostly agree with Dhruin, though I consider KotOR1 and 2 roughly equal: I do like the twist of KotOR1, and it's certainly more polished. Other than that, KotOR2 has the better gameplay (smoother, with features like weapon switching and advanced classes) and the better writing overall (too bad certain parts were cut, meaning characters like Sion/Nihilus make less sense).
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