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Default The Witcher 2 - Audio Interview @ The Cynical Brit

September 16th, 2010, 02:54
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Are you kidding? So you think when it first came out the English dialog was pretty good? Accolades? It was atrocious by most people.

So now you're suddenly shifting the focus to dialogue? I thought we were talking about cinematics. English wasn't even its native language, but that's a moot point anyways, because they fixed that with the EE version.

Yes accolades, in case you missed it, The Witcher received quite a few.
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September 16th, 2010, 04:38
Don't we consider dialogue part of the "cinematic" experience - voiced words and writing?

Here are some definitions I googled:

cinematics
the art or principles of making motion pictures. — cinematic, adj

Definition of CINEMATIC
1: of, relating to, suggestive of, or suitable for motion pictures or the filming of motion pictures <cinematic principles and techniques>

Definition: 1. appropriate to movies: typical of the style in which movies are made
2. of movies: relating to movies or moviemaking

Yes, they fixed the dialogue a year after release. Poor dialogue is not a moot point, because I and most most people wouldn't want to have to wait year after buying it. They probably didn't do it right the first time because of a lack of resources.

But I still didn't like the quicktime combat, minimal roleplaying, and long loading times.

Hopefully they'll do it better the second time, but it sounds like the character development will be even more simplistic, making it even less of a roleplaying experience.
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September 16th, 2010, 06:02
Lol…. Dude…just stop. You can try to spin it any way you like, but that's not what we were talking about. Sure, dialogue is a part of cinematics, but if that's what you were *specifically* referring to, then why the fuck didn't you just say "dialogue"?

And yes, it was a moot point. It was a Polish game that was translated to English, it's not as if it was made here. Even though the original release wasn't perfect, most people still enjoyed it. More importantly, CD Projekt wasn't obligated to do anything, yet they listened to fan feedback, and created a patch that improved the game greatly. That's more than what most developers do now.

You can continue your crusade to bring the game down, but it doesn't change the fact that you're part of the minority that didn't like it. Get over it. You didn't like it, that's fine, but why continue to beat a dead horse?
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September 16th, 2010, 09:48
Originally Posted by Greymane View Post
Most ridiculous complaint of a rated mature video game that I've seen in a while.
What? You think jailers like that would pass on a chance with a good looking female prisoner? Yeah, right… and tell me, why would the jailer want to make of mess of those?! silly boys..
I agree with this , if there are no hot big titted women why to work as a torturer anyway?

If it is going to look like bioware's version of sexynes that is only suitable for Twilight fans i think CDPR shall entirely skip it .

Is there an option to torture her yourself? that would be mature !
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September 16th, 2010, 10:38
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
The problem isn't the torturers but the scene direction when Geralt releases her. As Zephyr pointed out, the victim is presumably traumatised after a harrowing experience. That isn't conveyed.
I can certainly agree with such a criticism.
What keeps bothering me however, and makes me want to take the piss out of the whole situation, is that such issues of direction seem to become a big deal mostly when nudity is concerned.

Which eventually leads to conclusions that may be misleading - Think this: is the fact that the victim is traumatized not conveyed because she had nice looking breasts? Is it therefore impossible for a good looking woman to convey such an emotion?

If it isn't then the problem of the scene may not be that we get to see her naked.

Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
Playing through the Witcher 1 right now for the first time. The sex is juvenile and feels tacked-on for its own sake. Through the vast majority of the dialog, the Geralt character isn't nearly as amoral as the marketing/hype would lead you to believe. He's depicted as a pretty straight arrow and a fairly moral person. In fact, it's pointed out that as a Witcher, he's sort of removed from the ways of humanity.

Then once one of the pretty female clones comes into the story, he suddenly becomes a horny slut. It comes out of nowhere, at least the way it's written into the game. This is my main problem with it, and why it feels juvenile. It's as if the writers and developers were developing the main story and quests about Salamandra and kept getting interrupted by emails from the marketing department reminding them to add in sex scenes.
This also seems to imply that casual sex is immoral… which is at least debatable.

I could also transform that paragraph of yours as such:
"Then once one ghoul infestation comes into the story, he suddenly becomes a cheap exterminator. It comes out of nowhere, at least the way it's written into the game. This is my main problem with it, and why it feels juvenile. It's as if the writers and developers were developing the main story and quests about Salamandra and kept getting interrupted by emails from the marketing department reminding them to add monster killing scenes."

One could point out that he is literally a monster exterminator so therefore these scenes fit in well enough (although the story is not about exterminating monsters). Well… he is also a "horny slut".


As for the juvenile part… I have always found Bioware's take on romance far more juvenile - more reminiscent of high school kids than people who make a living by wandering the world constantly putting their life on danger.

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September 16th, 2010, 13:05
Well, here we are discussion "the gender thing" already. What's the definition of romance ? How should the genders be portayed ? Full cliché-type and such ?

Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
As for the juvenile part… I have always found Bioware's take on romance far more juvenile - more reminiscent of high school kids than people who make a living by wandering the world constantly putting their life on danger.
That depends on the game. I'm pro romantic episodes, and I'm even pro NPC marrige within any game - but game are still made for boys/men by boys/men. So to say. So, no matter how far they'll try to include romantic episodes, it will *always* be influenced by the fact that they are men making games for men. I don't know, because I'm not a woman, but I almost assume that women would do romances in games differently. I would like to see that.

The only thing I see in games is that they try hard to do as if they were "mature games", or for an "mature audience", but they totally fail and lack of REAL mature themes.

Things like responsibility. Games usually include a form of a hero who is free, not bound in any way (except factions -> Gothic series), but is ultimatively free in to do whatever he or she wants to do.

No responsibility whatsoever. For no-one.

REAL mature themes do include that, however. The total lack of any responsibility in so-called "mature" games is to me a sign that they "do as if they were 'mature'". Because they not consequent.

Responsibility would for example include a hero who is married and has to look after his wife and a child, a baby, even. In a hostile world, which is, let's say infested by Orcs on a war, he would have to check every time his wife or/and his baby aren't killed. That no-one kidnaps them. He must check that he gets proper food for them, or the baby ill not survive.

But youngsters, those for whom tose "wannabe-mature" games are made for, don't bother with that. They DO NOT want to be responsibly in any way. And these youngsters most certainly wouldn't want to have to worry about the health of a tiny, fragile baby and his or her mother.

Instead, all of these games have a "Lone Starr" [from Spaceballs, a very good ironic take on the cliché of the "lone hero" !] as the potagonist !

These games blank out everything a youngster (as the target group of customers) would have to worry about.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; September 16th, 2010 at 13:17.
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September 16th, 2010, 13:34
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
That depends on the game. I'm pro romantic episodes, and I'm even pro NPC marrige within any game - but game are still made for boys/men by boys/men. So to say. So, no matter how far they'll try to include romantic episodes, it will *always* be influenced by the fact that they are men making games for men. I don't know, because I'm not a woman, but I almost assume that women would do romances in games differently. I would like to see that.
Leliana in Dragon Age was written by a woman. In fact, much of the writing in the game was done by three female writers.
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September 16th, 2010, 13:48
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
Which eventually leads to conclusions that may be misleading - Think this: is the fact that the victim is traumatized not conveyed because she had nice looking breasts? Is it therefore impossible for a good looking woman to convey such an emotion?

If it isn't then the problem of the scene may not be that we get to see her naked.
Impossible? No. More difficult and complex? I would think so. At the very least, it takes some of the focus away from at least some of the audience - we're talking about it, right? Imagine the scene was remade with no nudity but just a torn and dirty dress (as I recall, the she isn't really dirty and dishevelled, which seems odd). Is the scene the worse for it? Is her harrowing experience less conveyed? I doubt it. So, what does the nudity add?

Just to be clear, I'm all for nudity. Let's have more of it. Just put it in the right place, with the right context.

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September 16th, 2010, 14:04
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
<on responsibility>
Interestingly, having read the one Witcher novel that as been translated in English, I observe that the Witcher would be perfect to combine both concepts of responsibility and the lone hero.

In fact they did it fairly well in the first one too (well… better than others) - what with Alvin being pretty much a substitute of Ciri.

——————————————

BTW. I've been sort of lurking on this site for years before I got an account (actually not exactly 'lurking' - 'bumping into it very often while looking into games' would be more precise) and one of the main reasons I decided to join was the excellent review of the Witcher. Here's a part that seems appropriate:

First off, the women in Geralt's world appear to actually want to sleep with a famous heroic swordsman type that looks like the lead singer of a rock band, is polite and courteous, and is sterile and immune to disease. Go figure.

Second, the way they — and, by extension, Geralt — go about it is not at all trivial. Villagers and peasants inhabit a patriarchal society where women are pretty much powerless. A raped girl's only recourse is suicide; a young woman living alone is assumed to be a prostitute; a barmaid plays the "decent girl" in public but is quite ready for a tryst if she can get away with it. On the other hand, we have the Viziman aristocracy, which holds some courtesans in reasonably high regard, whose women take what they want whether they're men or power, and where extra-marital affairs are the norm rather than the exception. And then we have the egalitarian, "pagan" elves, the exclusively female dryads and, I hear, a matriarchal society in faraway Zerrikania.
——————————————————-

Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
So, what does the nudity add?.
It adds humiliation: that can be very strong - even the viewer's sexual arousal can potentially add to that.
(Note: I haven't actually seen the scene in question so I might be spewing nonsense… is it available somewhere?)

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September 16th, 2010, 14:40
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
It adds humiliation: that can be very strong - even the viewer's sexual arousal can potentially add to that.
(Note: I haven't actually seen the scene in question so I might be spewing nonsense… is it available somewhere?)
Actually, I can agree with that - but I think it takes a very good scene with subtle direction. This scene doesn't reach those heights. The nudity doesn't offend me in any way, it just doesn't achieve what (I assume) they want.

Have a look in our database for Gamescom presentation videos.

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September 16th, 2010, 15:24
Ok saw it…
I think she doesn't look tortured as such but rather as if those guards (or whatever they are) were about to… well.. not be nice to her.
I wouldn't say it was subtle but I don't think it had any problems that direction in games usually has… It still seems to me that observing the lack of subtlety on such a scene is due to the lack of nudity in games in general. (For example, had it been a scene from an 'alternative' comic book where nudity is common - often to a ridiculous extend - you wouldn't even had noticed)

So, the nudity doesn't offend you - but it's uncommon, so you notice it, and that alone may be off-putting when you focus on it and start observing flaws that you wouldn't normally see.


Don't know… I've always been in favor of subtlety but maybe some times a 'slap in the face' might be more appropriate - just to push us out of our 'safe zone' a bit.

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September 16th, 2010, 18:28
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You can continue your crusade to bring the game down, but it doesn't change the fact that you're part of the minority that didn't like it. Get over it. You didn't like it, that's fine, but why continue to beat a dead horse?
You're misinterpreting my posts. I liked the game AS A WHOLE. I never said I didn't. My point is NOT to bring down the original Witcher. My point is that I'd rather they spend their limitted resources on making a better game by improving gameplay, rather than perfecting the cinematics.
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September 16th, 2010, 19:27
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
You're misinterpreting my posts. I liked the game AS A WHOLE. I never said I didn't. My point is NOT to bring down the original Witcher. My point is that I'd rather they spend their limitted resources on making a better game by improving gameplay, rather than perfecting the cinematics.
I doubt that the people who work on gameplay mechanics are those who work on cinematics or character art. It doesn't really matter though, as it's a relatively simple problem to fix.
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September 16th, 2010, 21:43
There's a common budget pool resource to pay both of those sets of people. If they need to choose between continuing to pay for (or hire) a cinematics dev vs. a gameplay dev, I'd rather they choose…. (guess what).
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