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RPGWatch Forums » Games » The Elder Scrolls » The Elder Scrolls I - IV » The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread

Default The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread

August 29th, 2009, 09:58
I've never become a vampire or a werewolf yet in any of the Elder Scrolls games. I was always too worried about what kind of impact it was going to have on the rest of the game. It's something I definitely plan on trying in my next playthrough of Morrowind.
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September 4th, 2009, 05:38
I tried tons of mods with Oblivion. Nothing can polish that turd.

Ok, that was harsh It's not a terrible game just very dull, lifeless, one-dimensional, unimaginative, illogical, damn, there I go again

Seriously, I ended up uninstalling everything (too many mods out there) and just playing with a few basic ones (GUI one, the one that kills the constant text pop ups, a couple others) AND Adventurers which unfortunately stopped being tweaked by the modder. I thought it addressed a lot of balance issues in the game and made the game mildly fun.

Tried Obscuros but that thing tweaked the game TOO much - I want to keep as much of the original creators' vision as possible (for better or worse).

Still, Vanilla Morrowind > Oblivion Modded To Hell & Back and if I had the time I would play it again (never did finish any of the expansions).
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September 4th, 2009, 06:33
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
I want to keep as much of the original creators' vision as possible (for better or worse).
Why do you want to keep their vision? They're blind

Seriously, why do people want to keep the creators vision for anything? I'll play a game the first time with what they made, but if it was good enough for a second play then I'll look to see if there are any mods that could make the game a bit better.

Take Wizardry 8 for example. I love that game. I've played it more times than I can count (only passed a few times though), but I have no problem loading up Dodd's mod or Flamestykes to give me a different experience.

To hell with the creators' vision, I just want to have fun.

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September 4th, 2009, 06:42
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
Still, Vanilla Morrowind > Oblivion Modded To Hell & Back and if I had the time I would play it again (never did finish any of the expansions).
I put nearly 200 hours into Morrowind, and I never even went to Mournhold or Solstheim.


About mods though, I don't mind using them, as long as they don't change the game into something else entirely.
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September 4th, 2009, 09:06
The problem with mods is that they're done, typically, by one or two people - and it's incredibly hard to keep all factors of the game in mind when trying to do something that affects balance or the overall gameplay structure.

You tend to break something vital if you go beyond minor tweaks, and then you have a broken game - even if it entertains for a while.

That's been my experience with most balancing mods, or mods that significantly alter gameplay.

Also, Oblivion content is pretty hollow and samey - and you just can't alter content without actually creating something along the same lines, and no single person has the resources to do it truly well.

I know there are exceptions, and I know there are mods with voice acting and similar - but in 9 out of 10 cases, they just don't feel right or work right.

Also, mods are constantly upgraded and changed - and there are new ones every day.

As a player, I like to feel I'm getting the best experience or the most thorough experience - which means I'll never be able to play Oblivion as I want to - because there will always be more mods around the corner, and there will always be minor issues that are just about to be corrected.

It's because I'm a "difficult" person, in that I'm pretty pedantic about getting a "pure" experience, or at the very least a thoroughly tested and balanced experience that is consistent throughout.

Mods are great, in theory, but I find the VAST majority of them just don't work in a way that grants the player a consistent feeling of cohesion and quality.

So, I'm with Relayer on this one.

However, there are mods that only change cosmetic aspects like textures, or add something you don't really have to use if you don't want to. Also, the removal of level scaling has been done very thoroughly by certain people - so there are definitely mods that are worth it even with the above in mind.

It's just that the game, at its core, is too damn sterile and boring - and I really don't see mods being able to change that without changing the ENTIRE game at the core, and redoing most of the content.
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September 4th, 2009, 10:13
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
The problem with mods is that they're done, typically, by one or two people - and it's incredibly hard to keep all factors of the game in mind when trying to do something that affects balance or the overall gameplay structure.

You tend to break something vital if you go beyond minor tweaks, and then you have a broken game - even if it entertains for a while.

That's been my experience with most balancing mods, or mods that significantly alter gameplay.
I wasn't really just talking about Oblivion mods, but all mods in general.

The first time through a game is good, but if someone has changed it a little or improved it for the second time through, then I'll try it out for sure.

Anyways thanks for your post. I was just a little curious why some people needed to stick to the original game like glue.

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September 5th, 2009, 22:45
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I put nearly 200 hours into Morrowind, and I never even went to Mournhold or Solstheim.
WOW, you should definitely replay the game then, there was a lot of great stuff in those areas!!!
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September 6th, 2009, 06:28
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
WOW, you should definitely replay the game then, there was a lot of great stuff in those areas!!!
Oh trust me, I definitely plan on replaying Morrowind. Time is my biggest enemy when it comes to games like that though, I never seem to have enough for all the titles I want to play.
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September 6th, 2009, 08:41
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Oh trust me, I definitely plan on replaying Morrowind. Time is my biggest enemy when it comes to games like that though, I never seem to have enough for all the titles I want to play.
Solstheim has one hundred times better atmosphere than vanilla Morrowind. It's really amazing. You feel like you're somewhere outside in the wilderness trying to survive etc (at least I had that feeling). And playing werewolf is even more awsome! You have to play Bloodmoon if you like Morrowind.
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September 6th, 2009, 09:11
Solstheim has the Daggerfall feel, so I felt very much at home there .

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September 13th, 2009, 07:56
What I liked about Solstheim was the fact that i could finally get seriously hurt there again, as opposed to everywhere else!
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October 5th, 2009, 00:27
Would anyone know of programs that let you copy your face from one save game to another exactly? I've tried the Elder Face Copier but when I look at my new face it just doesn't look quite like my old one. I think it omits changes to Complexion, and that slider changes the face's shape as well as tone.

I've found one called Face Exchange Lite but that wouldn't start, it gave me an error message. I emailed the author and it got bounced back undelivered. I tried to download it from the Nexus and "File not found".

Are there any others?
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October 13th, 2009, 05:58
One feature of Oblivion can't be beaten: The rain. I like the sound of rain on the roof. Sometimes I listen to the Rain of Oblivion when going to sleep (the other times I listen to rain sounds on my iPod).

I know I'm weird.

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October 15th, 2009, 10:18
Originally Posted by pibbur View Post
One feature of Oblivion can't be beaten: The rain. I like the sound of rain on the roof. Sometimes I listen to the Rain of Oblivion when going to sleep (the other times I listen to rain sounds on my iPod).

I know I'm weird.
Have you ever listen to the rain in Morrowind when you are diving underwater?
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February 20th, 2010, 05:17
Oblivion has two major gaming mechanics. One is to explore the world, and the other is to build your character via that exploration. Oblivion removes the reason to do either of these things. Gone are the reasons to build your character's skills, gear, and magical prowess. The game lacked any sense of reward. That was it's flaw.

Without reward, human beings will not continue to respond with a specific behavior. In this case, that behavior is playing the game. Of course, the game is rewarding for some, but alas I am bias in this regard, as it simply was not a reinforcing experience for me.

- Enemies scale to your level. You never feel powerful, or weak, you always feel the same. Wow, you just found a new weapon? Cool, too bad it bares no real advantage within the game's combat system.(Or negligibly so.)

- There's no reason to explore the map. There are no unique areas with unique challenges(Or very few.) Why does exploration matter, if all you're going to find is scaled loot? If there's nothing unique to be found, beyond some bland visuals, some unrewarding quests, and sameness, what is the point?

The scaling, versus unique hand-placed content, works against the concept of exploration and rewards. One prevents the occurrence of the other. Exploration doesn't net the player unique loot(just bland scaled gear), and Scaled Gear does not offer any advantage when the monsters also scale.

Playing Oblivion was like playing a predictable flow chart that provided no real challenge, beyond a baseline challenge, which people adapt to and overcome, and Oblivion provided no reason to explore the world, challenge its denizens, or design a unique character. It was an utterly bland and pointless experience. If you played for 10 minutes, you experienced 100 hours.

There's simply no reward for continuing on in the journey. Maybe the developers felt that a blandly devised story was the reason to play. Alas, I simply don't understand the design goal. The game is anything but fun to play.

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August 19th, 2010, 04:41
In honor of Morrowind (the new article got me started!): Oblivion, you suck!

Oblivion cares about YOU!
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August 24th, 2010, 13:03
Dunno if it was mentioned earlier, but there is an almost finished (they introduce new dungeons with new patches) total conversion mod for Oblivion called Nehrim - At Fate's Edge. It is already available in German, and English version is coming along very nicely.

It has better character development system (more Gothic-like), better exploration (more Gothic-like), better dungeon design (wouldn't you know it, more Gothic-like!) and better writing (though, it's not hard to top Bethesda at that). The team also seems to have tweaked engine a bit (there is automatic memory purger for instance).

Personally, I can't wait for English version, since all the stuff they're showing looks pretty neat.

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August 30th, 2010, 17:55
I've had Oblivion for a few years now, since perhaps the year of release, and after one or two playthroughs I just can't be fussed with it.

This is how much I liked Oblivion at the time/how badly the rose-tinted spectacles affected me: I had the Oblivion guide which I gave away to a friend once the Revised & Expanded edition came out, I had all the DLC on disc and I have the Shivering Isle guide. Oh, and my disc was looking like it was about to die so I picked Obliv GotY Deluxe and Morrowind GotY from Steam during that weekend sale a few months back.

Wow, what a waste of money. Inside buildings Oblivion looks fine, but once you step outside it's horrendous. Textures are horrible, performance is horrible and movement is poor. I had to use mods to get halfway decent looking characters and even then I wasn't that content with them. Combat is poor (Better than Morrowind's, though) and when it's "good" it's repetitive. "IMMA SLASHIN AT THE WOLF" sums my memories up.

I think it's a really bad sign when gaming magazines and communities are telling players that they need mods. Not "Oh, you might like this", but the "You need this mod to fix X, Y and Z" and similar comments. I shouldn't have to sit there for a few hours wrangling with mods to get a game looking better and playing correctly - That's bad development, and I don't think anyone can say otherwise. I should be using mods to enhance game play, add challenges or bypass things I don't like - I shouldn't be installing them to make the game playable.

I'd liken Oblivion to how I fixed my curtain pole. It works, but barely. Oh, I need to explain how I fixed it. The screw fitting has come out of the wall (taking some of the plaster with it) so now it doesn't fit in. I used string to hold the pole up, and it's not straight. It tilts downwards

Fallout 3 was such an improvement, yet it also wasn't. The character creator was just as bad (Especially with the screen effect. Ugh.), but that's a rant for another day.
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September 13th, 2010, 19:31
Originally Posted by Xi View Post
Oblivion has two major gaming mechanics. One is to explore the world, and the other is to build your character via that exploration. Oblivion removes the reason to do either of these things. Gone are the reasons to build your character's skills, gear, and magical prowess. The game lacked any sense of reward. That was it's flaw.

Without reward, human beings will not continue to respond with a specific behavior. In this case, that behavior is playing the game. Of course, the game is rewarding for some, but alas I am bias in this regard, as it simply was not a reinforcing experience for me.

- Enemies scale to your level. You never feel powerful, or weak, you always feel the same. Wow, you just found a new weapon? Cool, too bad it bares no real advantage within the game's combat system.(Or negligibly so.)

- There's no reason to explore the map. There are no unique areas with unique challenges(Or very few.) Why does exploration matter, if all you're going to find is scaled loot? If there's nothing unique to be found, beyond some bland visuals, some unrewarding quests, and sameness, what is the point?

The scaling, versus unique hand-placed content, works against the concept of exploration and rewards. One prevents the occurrence of the other. Exploration doesn't net the player unique loot(just bland scaled gear), and Scaled Gear does not offer any advantage when the monsters also scale.

Playing Oblivion was like playing a predictable flow chart that provided no real challenge, beyond a baseline challenge, which people adapt to and overcome, and Oblivion provided no reason to explore the world, challenge its denizens, or design a unique character. It was an utterly bland and pointless experience. If you played for 10 minutes, you experienced 100 hours.

There's simply no reward for continuing on in the journey. Maybe the developers felt that a blandly devised story was the reason to play. Alas, I simply don't understand the design goal. The game is anything but fun to play.
these are my sentiments exactly. great post….
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September 20th, 2010, 04:50
Wow. So much Oblivion hate. I guess I'm among a rare minority who loved the game and played to completion the first time with no mods (or at least nothing earth shattering). I thought the story was pretty good, and oddly enough the 2nd and 3rd times I completed the main quest it grew on me rather than boring me to death.

Someone quoted a list from 2002 or so:
Morrowind
IWD2
NWN
Divine Divinity
Arcanum
Wizardy 8
BG2: Throne of Bhall
Gothic
Morrowind: Tribunal
I played Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon and loved them all.

Icewind Dale was good, its sequel sucked hugely though. Any game where I am compelled to cheat and STILL end up dead is not worth a second look, ever.

NWN, hated it through and through. Only finished it out of a sense of obligation to the money I spent buying it. Really should have taken it back but didn't. Therefore, never touched NWN 2 despite people saying I should play it. I simply won't, the NWN interface was so horrible it destroyed the rest of the game experience. A lot of this crap even carried forward into Dragon Age, which annoyed me to no end.

Divine Divinity - Barely even heard of it. So I can't comment.

Arcanum - Game was great, plagued with bugs as I recall, but I played it through twice just to be able to experience both perspectives of things.

Wizardry 8 - I've played that one 3 or 4 times up to a certain point, then it either loses something or I got stuck and couldn't get past the sticking point.

The BG series was aweseom, though BG2 felt very restrictive.

Gothic, well, I liked the first two despite only having played them in the last year or so. Graphics were horribly dated, but the stories were decent. Gothic 3 left a great deal to be desired though even with the massive community overhaul patch.

So I'm not at all convinced that 2001-2002 were the last of the golden ages. There have been some very good things released since then, and I count Oblivion among those. Sure, I play Oblivion heavily modded these days, and I've made plenty of my own too, but that's what keeps it freash, and that's why we're all still talking about it AT ALL 4 years later.

Obligatory mod list for those who will probably be interested:
Spoiler
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