Fallout 3 - Headed to Xbox 360?

No suprise there then.

In all honesty, does anyone expect anything else then Oblivion with guns?
Like Oblivion or not, truth is that it sold incredibly well, got raving reviews and GOTY awards. Why would Bethesda move away from a winning formula, just to please a couple of die-hard old school RPG-fans?
A turn-based, conversation-driven isometric view RPG just won't sell as well as an action-adventure FPS hack'n'slash, and Bethesda has a whole new fanbase who will buy the latter just because it's from the makers of Oblivion.
And yes, ofcourse they will call it an RPG, jusr like they did with Oblivion.

I wasn't fond of the old fallout games at ll, I hated the slow turn based system, and so I never got very far in it, but I have to say Oblivion didn't do it for me either. So I won't be picking this one up, unless I hear some good reviews from people I trust (not the usual fawning big-website reviews). I have no fate what so ever in Bethesda being true to the original though, al they will do is pay it lip-service by using the name and using a post-apocalyptic setting.

So did anyone else get Psychonauts mainly for the fact that Tim Schafer was the head honcho on the game? Do you guys automatically think of FPS games if I say: Id Software? Does the director, author, or leading role actor ever influence you when choosing a movie or book?

If you can say yes to any of the above then it should be pretty obvious that a Fallout game made by a company like Bethesda is NOT going to be anything even remotely resembling the Fallout games made by Black Isle Studios. Could it be a good game? Sure. Tolkien was a great writer but if you were expecting Shakespeare, you're in for a surprise.

All the things that made Fallout and the sequel great games in my point of view is just about all the things that Bethesda do NOT master (dialogue, character personality, strategic gameplay, etc). I'm sure the Bethesda attempt will be damn pretty, the world will be huge and the free roaming aspect will be just fine … but it would be better off NOT trying to associate itself with the Fallout franchise because in that it will fail, miserably.

Oblivion with guns, pretty much yeah. It doesn't sound that surprising at all they would make FO3 a multiport title after Oblivion's past success on several platforms. Why wouldn't they, if I were in Bethesda's nice financial position I would do the same.

In my humble opinion people looking for turn based isometric-view computer rpgs are better off looking at indie games where turn based games are still being made. The commercial market has been lacking in this aspect for years. As for other post-apocalyptic themed games, well NMA covers some of those pretty well.

Originally Posted by xSamhainx
I dont have animosity toward Fallout fans as a group, I am one myself. I do however think that some people's drama queen theatrics are a bit hilarious at best, and totally pathetic at worst. Some people get carried away when a game isnt what they expect it to be, and they go nuts.

Very well said! I agree 100% with this! Whenever a game series has been around for some time there will always be some die-hard fans who loves the originals so much (they probably have played them 100 times) that *whatever* the developers do in a sequel they'll whine about it - because they don't *want* a new game, they want a carbon copy of the old ones. Better yet, they want a time machine so they can travel back in time and experience the old games all over again, fresh and new. What they don't realize it that time passes and developers dont want to do the same thing over and over again - sometimes they want to try out new designs and ideas to keep *their* series fresh.

Take "Thief 3" for example. Personally I liked many things about that game - for example the introduction of a city that you could roam when you were between missions, instead of a linear game that takes you through the missions and where you loose all your stuff between missions. I also likes the old Thief games, but I appreciated the new and fresh things. As you all probably remember (and I'm sure many people here would even feel the same) some old fans of the series went crazy about the game. Even the smallest design changes they hated and ridiculed - for example the fact that Garrett now had a short sword instead of a dagger (or was it the other way around, can't even remember). I mean, talk about going in small shoes here! What the hell does it matter for the game overall which meelee weapon they game him?

On the main topic of this thread - I don't want FO3 to be a new Oblivion either… but I have faith in Bethestha that they will develop a quality product. Whatever can be said about Oblivion regarding game play noone can deny that it shipped in a pretty solid state. In the end Bethesta will do the only thing that makes sense for them - they'll develop a game that'll make a profit. Hopefully it'll still be a FO game, but I guess we'll have to wait and see

"On the main topic of this thread - I don't want FO3 to be a new Oblivion either… but I have faith in Bethestha that they will develop a quality product. Whatever can be said about Oblivion regarding game play noone can deny that it shipped in a pretty solid state."

I never bothered with Oblivion, but Morrowind was a joke of a game on its initial release. Non-existent difficulty, bland quests and combat, endless boring dialogue to wade though, buggy engine. It was the years of hard work and dedication by the mod community that made Morrowind the game that it is today. Bethesda had very little to do with it.

I have very little faith in Bethesda, myself to do a new Fallout game and justice.

With all the promising indie, isometric RPG's coming up this year, maybe someone will be inspired to do a post-apoc Fallout type game soon after.

In fact, such a thing was announced recently by a veteran developer from one of the old school houses who was starting his own indie company, but the details escape me…

I agree, some of the Fallout fans are like religious fanatics about their aging love—but it does say something about a game that it can make that kind of impact on people's minds and emotions. I've doubted from the beginning that Bethesda could ever spin anything their way that would have any effect. I think we will see with this title how committed to excellence Beth is or isn't.

Some of you who are more knowledgable than I, tell me why ( or if) no one is using the type of 3rd person view engine used in Titan Quest for rpgs? It seems like it would be perfect for it. It combines the old third person perspective with good ragdoll physics and excellent graphics—seems like it would be an alternative to all this first-person ever-repeating tileset stuff.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Of course, a hell of a lot more people played Morrowind than Daggerfall, so that could be a factor.

That's no a factor, that's the factor. The fans of the original TES series loathed Morrowind quite a bit more than Morrowind fans loathed Oblivion, and this includes developers in Bethesda who've been around since the start, not to mention those that left around the time Todd went from coffeeboy to big lead.

"Oblivion with guns" sounds like the greatest game ever to me.

Then petition Bethesda for Oblivion with guns, rather than Fallout 3.

Of course, I bear a great deal of personal animosity toward Fallout fans,

(that *whatever* the developers do in a sequel they'll whine about it - because they don't *want* a new game)

Yeah, you and half the planet. Funny thing is most of the "facts" mumbled about Fallout fans are blatant lies, people seem to easily forget that we were willing to give Tactics a chance, that we accepted multiplayer co-op and RT/TB hybrid in Van Buren, that we accepted Van Buren because the devs showed a willingness to communicate with us and an understanding of the setting, despite the fact that none of them were original Fallout devs. So where's the "don't want a new game"? Where's the "whatever people do is wrong"?

There are so many superb rpg titles

Urp? Name one. I haven't seen a good cRPG released since…hell, I don't even remember.

There are some superb hack and slash and dungeon crawlers out there, though, like Gothic and TES.

For one thing they do know how to make openended rpgs.

Open ended has no meaning without the concept of choice and consequence.

Why would Bethesda move away from a winning formula, just to please a couple of die-hard old school RPG-fans?

Why would they buy a license that has a ravenous, angry fanbase and has shown no promise of success on the console?

made by Black Isle Studios

Black Isle Studios is just a name, though. Except for Chris "Fleet of Cars" Avallone, who left quickly, there were no classic BIS devs working on Van Buren. Yet Van Buren, from the design docs, screenshots and info, looked to be a good, solid cRPG and true to the Fallout setting. And it was being made by a bunch of guys who have as much of a clue as you or I. 's not that hard, in other words.

Why wouldn't they

Because Fallout Teh Console Gaim bombed? Not the right target audience. Herve didn't understand, I'm kind of surprised Pete doesn't either.

sometimes they want to try out new designs and ideas to keep *their* series fresh.

What's fresh about making a TES-version of Fallout? Innovative of Bethesda would be to go away from what they normally do, not to stick to it.

Nice pr-speak, tho'

Whatever can be said about Oblivion regarding game play noone can deny that it shipped in a pretty solid state.

Sure. But the comparison to Tactics does come to mind. Innovate or not, if they wander away from the things that make Fallout Fallout, it'll just be an empty shell of a franchise. So, wait, Fallout 3 will be another spin-off-type game? 'k. Just be honest about it.

"What's fresh about making a TES-version of Fallout? Innovative of Bethesda would be to go away from what they normally do, not to stick to it."

Well, as far as I understand it - noone *knows* what Beth intends to do with the license yet! Until they make an official statement and/or shows us some material it is only speculations that:

1) It'll surely suck because Beth is developing it!
2) It'll surely employ the exact same game mechanics as their TES series!

Lets all just calm down and wait and see what they have in mind for us with the game Whether they'll use a first person or third person perspective means little for me - that's not what makes or breaks a FO game, just the way it is presented to us. I'm more interested in what they intend to do with quests, dialog, items and atmosphere!

Originally Posted by Kharn
Then petition Bethesda for Oblivion with guns, rather than Fallout 3.

And why should I do that? I get what I want either way.

Originally Posted by KasperFauerby
Well, as far as I understand it - noone *knows* what Beth intends to do with the license yet! Until they make an official statement and/or shows us some material it is only speculations that

True, like I said, wait until March. However, I wasn't arguing against what Bethesda will do, I was arguing against your logic.

Originally Posted by KasperFauerby
It'll surely employ the exact same game mechanics as their TES series!

Pete Hines: Again, it's early to say, but it wouldn't be a leap of faith to say that we plan to use technologies in development otherwise. You could make some fairly safe leaps of faith that it would be similar in style. We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well.

Originally Posted by KasperFauerby
Whether they'll use a first person or third person perspective means little for me - that's not what makes or breaks a FO game, just the way it is presented to us. I'm more interested in what they intend to do with quests, dialog, items and atmosphere!

Agreed, the third person perspective is integral of turn-based combat, but as it won't have turn-based combat, the third personv perspective becomes secondary.

That said, they will have isometric view, because their engine allows for a moveable camera, meaning it takes about 2 seconds to make a menu option to pick between first person or isometric. Oblivion had isometric view, it just looked like shit.

And why should I do that? I get what I want either way.

Heh, yeah, I guess you do

Originally Posted by abbaon
"Oblivion with guns" sounds like the greatest game ever to me. I'll pick that one up day of release, if that's what we get. Of course, I bear a great deal of personal animosity toward Fallout fans, so their (largely theatrical, partly genuine) outrage will only sweeten the experience.

Buahahahahahaha… good one, dude

For those who missed it and are interested, here's a two-year old interview with T. Howard on F3.

Originally Posted by Kharn
That's no a factor, that's the factor. The fans of the original TES series loathed Morrowind quite a bit more than Morrowind fans loathed Oblivion, and this includes developers in Bethesda who've been around since the start, not to mention those that left around the time Todd went from coffeeboy to big lead.

Perhaps they were not real fans. I have played through both Arena and Daggerfall and consider Morrowind and Oblivion as superb successors. Allthough
the mods help quite especially the morrowind ones that are unbelievable but I do consider them as part of the game. Mods are a significant part of morrowind and oblivion. I would never play them without mods.

Originally Posted by Kharn
Urp? Name one. I haven't seen a good cRPG released since…hell, I don't even remember.

You mean you have played through every RPG title ever released on every platform? I doubt so. Unless you have a problem of playing older RPG. Currently on my list to play through is:

Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Final Fantasy 10
Final Fantasy 10-2
Final Fantasy 12
Chrono Cross
Siege of avalon
Morrowind GOTY +20 mods
Oblivion & expansions & mods
Gothic 2 deluxe
Gothic 3
Spellforce & expansions
Spellforce 2
Baldurs 2 & expansions
Icewind dale saga
Neverwinter nights saga
Fallout 1 (replaying)
Fallout 2 (never finished) + mods
Fallout Tactics
Warcraft 3 & expansion
Beyond divinity
Fable lost chapters
Planescape: Torment
Arx Fatalis
Dark Messiah of MM
Gods Loi SE
Homm5

Soon to be added (possibly):
Jade Empire SE
Two Worlds
Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl

Som of them are not just RPGs but they all do have rp-elements like character development and dialogue so I consider them as RPGs. Its actually refreshing to play different kinds of RPGs instead of the same vanilla all the time. Thats what got me to pick up final fantasy. Its so different from pc rpgs and a slim ps2 costs only 100€ nowadays.

So you see I have so many rpgs to play that I dont have time to complain about the lack of them. But each to their own.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Perhaps they were not real fans. I have played through both Arena and Daggerfall and consider Morrowind and Oblivion as superb successors.

Uhm, perhaps you're not a real fan. What kind of argument is that?

The reason most Arena/Daggerfall fans didn't like Morriwind and most Morrowind fans didn't like Oblivion is that each successor takes away essential components of the game and puts in "innovations" like levelling NPCs. I'm not saying that's bad by definition, it can still make a good game, but it's not being loyal to either the fanbase or the franchise. Hence the many original devs leaving Bethesda.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Allthough
the mods help quite especially the morrowind ones that are unbelievable but I do consider them as part of the game. Mods are a significant part of morrowind and oblivion. I would never play them without mods.

For reference's sake, that's a bad thing.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Unless you have a problem of playing older RPG.

Sorry, for some reason I was thinking about cRPG titles currently being released, which wasn't what the post I was quoting was referring to. My bad.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Som of them are not just RPGs but they all do have rp-elements like character development and dialogue so I consider them as RPGs.

I don't. But let's please not get into that.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Its actually refreshing to play different kinds of RPGs instead of the same vanilla all the time.

Indeed, agreed, which is why it would be fantastic to have another true-form P&P-based cRPG rather than the constant rehashing of action-RPGs and dungeon crawlers like Oblivion and Gothic.

Originally Posted by Kharn
Uhm, perhaps you're not a real fan. What kind of argument is that?

I have played through/own all the games in the series and like them and you say Im not a real fan?

Originally Posted by Kharn
The reason most Arena/Daggerfall fans didn't like Morriwind and most Morrowind fans didn't like Oblivion is that each successor takes away essential components of the game and puts in "innovations" like levelling NPCs.

What evidence do you have that "most" Arena/Daggerfall fans didnt like morrowind or oblivion? None. I say the real fans played the game instead of trying to get attension in the forums.

Originally Posted by Kharn
For reference's sake, that's a bad thing.

Having high quality free mods that make the game better is a bad thing?

Indeed, agreed, which is why it would be fantastic to have another true-form P&P-based cRPG rather than the constant rehashing of action-RPGs and dungeon crawlers like Oblivion and Gothic.

Constant rehashing? How many oblivion/gothic clones are there?

Kharn,

You need to calm down and respect other peoples opinions. Sorry you didn't like Morrowind, but not everyone feels the same way you do.

"The fans of the original TES series loathed Morrowind quite a bit more than Morrowind fans loathed Oblivion"

You're obviously speaking for yourself when you say that. Yes, I'm sure there are people who would agree with you, but many people also have a different opinion.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Kharn,

You need to calm down and respect other peoples opinions. Sorry you didn't like Morrowind, but not everyone feels the same way you do.

(…)

You're obviously speaking for yourself when you say that. Yes, I'm sure there are people who would agree with you, but many people also have a different opinion.

Sorry, I'm not a TES fan at all. So I'm not speaking for myself when I say "the fans of the original TES series".

Also, where did I say I didn't like Morrowind? Read a bit more carefully, I clearly said "I'm not saying that's bad by definition, it can still make a good game, but it's not being loyal to either the fanbase or the franchise. Hence the many original devs leaving Bethesda."

Also, are you telling me to be quiet because I don't respect people's opinions despite the fact that there are people whose opinion is that Morrowind was not a true sequel of Daggerfall/Arena? Dude, please respect their opinion.

I have played through/own all the games in the series and like them and you say Im not a real fan?

You're saying they're not fans, without a doubt they also played all the games. My points was that your point is moot.

I say the real fans played the game instead of trying to get attension in the forums.

So your definition of a fan is a person that does not criticise?

Having high quality free mods that make the game better is a bad thing?

Yes, because you can't fix something that's not broken.

Constant rehashing? How many oblivion/gothic clones are there?

I said "like". The main point was that pretty much all 2006 releases were action RPGs, not a single true form P&P RPG to be seen: Dungeon Siege 2, Mage Knight and Titan Quest are all Diablo-esque hack 'n slashes, Oblivion and Gothic 3 were action-RPGs at best, NWN2 kind of makes a stab at being true form but is a bit schizophrenic.

Another fan who played all Bethesda titles (with the exception of the handheld games), and liked them . If we talk about the CRPGs only, sure - Oblivion was not like Morrowind was not like Daggerfall was not like Arena, and each successor had several aspects I would have done differently had I been the one to decide these things… yet I liked each game for what it was.
On the other hand, I am a big fan of Gothic 1 and 2, yet I'm not going to get G3 unless it's going to the bargain bin including patches and addons. Why? Not because I don't like the general approach Piranha Bytes have taken, changing certain elements of gameplay when compared to the predecessors - I wouldn't know as I haven't played the game yet. No, I don't want to buy it until it's stable because I can't be bothered with trying to get a bugfest to run on my machine. Even if it's a totally different game, I'm pretty sure I'll have fun playing it just because it's set in a game world I have come to love (I also liked Thief: DS 'despite' being a fan of the predecessors).
With Doom 3 it was a different thing for me, though: had they declared it a sequel to Doom, I would have been fine with it, but Id said it was a *remake*. And while they retained some of the basics, they changed the lore and background enough to make me grumpy…

So unless they change the background of Fallout, the history and the world, why not give F3 a try?

I have no doubt that Bethesda will produce a great game with 'Fallout 3' especially if it has a great tool set and can be modded. My only problem (admittedly shallow) is that they are using the 'Fallout 3' name. They could have easily called it 'Fallout: Oblivion With Guns' or whatever. I also accepted long ago, like many of us did, that the 'Fallout' that we know and love is dead.