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Default Fallout 3 - Headed to Xbox 360?

January 20th, 2007, 21:04
To use the word "most" in regards to fans and their attitudes in this discussion, with some degree of validity, I would use it like this - "Most people have not been actually surveyed and asked what they think about 'title', and I'm not an omniscient being (at least last time I checked). Therefore, I will use the anecdotal evidence of outspoken people on message boards, reviews, and my own personal feelings to sum up what I think Most People Think about 'title'."

Well in that case, what hard data do we truly have? Is there a national RPG Census Board that sends out a bunch of survey elves to people who buy RPGs?

Unfortunately not, as this would answer for once and for all one way or another. What real data we do have are sales figures, and looking at those, I would say that Morrowind was generally not a "loathed" game, old school fan or not. Nor was Oblivion, for that matter. These games would not have sold and resold as much as they did, on multiple platforms, if they were. Perhaps by a lot of people, sure, but if you had to stack up love vs hate, the real data speaks FTW.
Last edited by xSamhainx; January 20th, 2007 at 21:13.
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January 20th, 2007, 21:12
Originally Posted by abbaon View Post
And why should I do that? I get what I want either way.
Wow … that's … how's the weather there at the perceived center of the universe?

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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January 20th, 2007, 21:31
Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
You're saying they're not fans, without a doubt they also played all the games. My points was that your point is moot.
You said that "the fans of original TES series loathed morrowind" which is incorrect. Surely som might not like it but making it a generalization is just not right. Im sure there are many original fans who liked morrowind.

Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
So your definition of a fan is a person that does not criticise?
If you can put "loathing" into the same sentence as criticising. Fans can critize but surely its not a requirement if they are happy with what they see.

Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
I said "like". The main point was that pretty much all 2006 releases were action RPGs, not a single true form P&P RPG to be seen: Dungeon Siege 2, Mage Knight and Titan Quest are all Diablo-esque hack 'n slashes, Oblivion and Gothic 3 were action-RPGs at best, NWN2 kind of makes a stab at being true form but is a bit schizophrenic.
I agree with DS, mage knight and titan quest. I decided to skip them all. I have never liked diablo or its clones.
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January 20th, 2007, 23:21
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
You said that "the fans of original TES series loathed morrowind" which is incorrect. Surely som might not like it but making it a generalization is just not right. Im sure there are many original fans who liked morrowind.
Sure, fair enough. Just read it as a hyperbole.

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
If you can put "loathing" into the same sentence as criticising. Fans can critize but surely its not a requirement if they are happy with what they see.
No, but the two things aren't exclusive, which you were implying.

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
I agree with DS, mage knight and titan quest. I decided to skip them all. I have never liked diablo or its clones.
Oh, I like Diablo. Played it quite a bit. That wasn't my point, though, my point was that all we've seen is bucketloads of action-RPGs, of good or bad quality, and that those looking for innovation shouldn't currently be looking for yet more action-RPGs, since that is the status quo.

To think Fallout fans are actually the ones clammering for change and the Oblivion-fans for conservatism. Funny, n'est pas?
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January 21st, 2007, 01:29
I wonder if they hire someone who can write passable dialogue and create at least a semi-memorable NPC. This would be a great step forward from Oblivion.
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January 21st, 2007, 02:25
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
With all the promising indie, isometric RPG's coming up this year, maybe someone will be inspired to do a post-apoc Fallout type game soon after.

In fact, such a thing was announced recently by a veteran developer from one of the old school houses who was starting his own indie company, but the details escape me…
Actually, Cleve Blakemore has one planned after he finishes and releases Grimoire!! Wait for it!!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 21st, 2007, 03:55
*coughs*

Any day now!
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January 21st, 2007, 04:20
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Actually, Cleve Blakemore has one planned after he finishes and releases Grimoire!! Wait for it!!!
I'm getting a bit blue holding my breath … ack!

— Mike
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January 21st, 2007, 05:05
Didn't he whittle the spec for that down to a simple zombie survival game that his four year old could enjoy? I remember seeing a forum post along those lines, before he banned me for making fun of Corwin.

Statues wouldn't be better if they could move. Model airplanes would not be better if they were the same size as airplanes.
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January 21st, 2007, 05:41
As well he should!!!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 21st, 2007, 06:44
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Final Fantasy 10
Final Fantasy 10-2
Final Fantasy 12
Chrono Cross
Siege of avalon
Morrowind GOTY +20 mods
Oblivion & expansions & mods
Gothic 2 deluxe
Gothic 3
Spellforce & expansions
Spellforce 2
Baldurs 2 & expansions
Icewind dale saga
Neverwinter nights saga
Fallout 1 (replaying)
Fallout 2 (never finished) + mods
Fallout Tactics
Warcraft 3 & expansion
Beyond divinity
Fable lost chapters
Planescape: Torment
Arx Fatalis
Dark Messiah of MM
Gods Loi SE
Homm5

Soon to be added (possibly):
Jade Empire SE
Two Worlds
Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34337
Originally Posted by Wild_qwerty
japRPG are not RPGs by any diffinition, they are closer to a playable movie (make that a playable manga style movie). For some reason people have this preconcieved notion that "if you can collect new armour and go up levels then it must be a rpg" Well you can collect armour and new weapons in Doom but I would call that a RPG. The JapRPGs have less freedom than ultima 1. real rpgs should be an electronic version of a paper game where the player can do anything, you imagine trying to play a paper based rpg with a group of friends where the dungeon master/game master would only let you follow his exact script .

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January 21st, 2007, 07:29
We actually settled the question of what is or isn't an RPG in a different thread. Use the search option to find it.

Statues wouldn't be better if they could move. Model airplanes would not be better if they were the same size as airplanes.
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January 21st, 2007, 07:32
zioburosky13
"imagine trying to play a paper based rpg with a group of friends where the dungeon master/game master would only let you follow his exact script .

I think Sorcha Ravenlock speak's for many of us, in this case.
"bite me"

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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January 21st, 2007, 07:46
[QUOTE=Kharn;16492]
Sorry, I'm not a TES fan at all. So I'm not speaking for myself when I say "the fans of the original TES series".
QUOTE]


Really? I'm surprised to hear that. Since you seem to be a walking dictionary of TES knowledge.
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January 21st, 2007, 13:45
Originally Posted by zioburosky13 View Post
Originally Posted by Wild_qwerty
japRPG are not RPGs by any diffinition, they are closer to a playable movie (make that a playable manga style movie). For some reason people have this preconcieved notion that "if you can collect new armour and go up levels then it must be a rpg" Well you can collect armour and new weapons in Doom but I would call that a RPG. The JapRPGs have less freedom than ultima 1. real rpgs should be an electronic version of a paper game where the player can do anything, you imagine trying to play a paper based rpg with a group of friends where the dungeon master/game master would only let you follow his exact script .
Sounds like people who condemn "jap" RPGs have never actually played them.

I recently finished three final fantasies and chrono trigger and they all had large world that you could travel freely ultima style with ships or foot and do whatever quests you wanted. There were even multiple endings to the story and dialogue choices.
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January 21st, 2007, 16:36
Last I heard Cleve was holed up in his personal bomb shelter and may have starved to death…

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Sounds like people who condemn "jap" RPGs have never actually played them.
I recently finished three final fantasies and chrono trigger and they all had large world that you could travel freely ultima style with ships or foot and do whatever quests you wanted. There were even multiple endings to the story and dialogue choices.
Ultima and Wizardry are very popular in the Japanese market so it is logical that elements of western games make it into Japanese games and vice versa.

Chrono Trigger was probably the most non-linear of all the squaresoft console rpgs and it is I guess in some sense comparable to the Ultimas with some caveats. It still has NPC's that you click the "A" button to talk to and get a verbatim response (over and over again) with the occasional option(YES/NO) thrown in. It still has the annoying inescapable random battles.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
Last edited by bjon045; January 21st, 2007 at 16:37. Reason: mistake
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January 21st, 2007, 16:50
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Chrono Trigger was probably the most non-linear of all the squaresoft console rpgs and it is I guess in some sense comparable to the Ultimas with some caveats. It still has NPC's that you click the "A" button to talk to and get a verbatim response (over and over again) with the occasional option(YES/NO) thrown in. It still has the annoying inescapable random battles.
The random battles were not as bad as in first final fantasies. Still in the sequel it was fixed for in chrono cross there is no random battles and you can even escape (boss battles even) if you feel it to be too tough.
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January 21st, 2007, 18:03
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Really? I'm surprised to hear that. Since you seem to be a walking dictionary of TES knowledge.
I'm know more about TES history than I do about the games. TES was always too hack 'n slash for me, and considering it was designed as an arena-fighter/dungeon crawler kind of game, it's not surprising that it's always been cRPG-lite. The focus has shifted since the start and some would argue that the quality has decreased. I'm not really making a statement on that either way, but I will say that I consider TES one of the series in which the developers crossed from the realm of innovation into the area of being disloyal to the franchise.

abbaon; heh, claiming to settle the question of what is a cRPG is like claiming you know the ultimate question to life, the universe and everything.
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January 21st, 2007, 23:58
Isn't that 42??!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 22nd, 2007, 06:07
Great another Xbox/Pc game with a hackneyed control system to cater to the needs of the console gamer.
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