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Default Frayed Knights - Alpha Is Boring

October 28th, 2010, 22:17
Jay must have upped his caffeine intake because he has another Frayed Knights post, this time titled Alpha Is Boring, Except For Those Poor Souls Working On It:
And really, that’s not much fun to watch. I’m as excited as anything about Frayed Knights right now, but we’re really at the stage of the development process that it’s not about new stuff anymore. It’s about the old stuff getting refined. Subtle stuff individually, but that collectively makes the game look more like a real game than the amateurish hack-job that it really is (oops, did I say that out loud?).
From the outside, alpha’s kinda boring.
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October 28th, 2010, 22:17
More than anything else, it probably represents the scant amount of time I've had to pay attention to anything else. I've been playing a little bit of ToEE and Icewind Dale in about 20-minute bursts. For a slacker part-time indie, I think I'm in crunch mode…
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October 29th, 2010, 03:33
Good luck at the Utah Indie Night.

Personally, I think you are a little hard on yourself, but in a funny way. You make it work for you though sorta like Jon Stewart.

You shouldn't be worried though. Even in the pilot, the thing that I liked the most was the writing. Sure the other stuff is great, but it was funny without going to deathspank kind of humor. Actually, it reminded me a lot of Quest for Glory series. One of my all time favorite series.

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October 29th, 2010, 08:33
Frayed Knights - Alpha Is Boring
Perhaps it is because of the J-rpg like combat system? if that didn't change from the pilote…… I always get bored with those….
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October 29th, 2010, 08:56
JRPG combat system??? I don't remember it having timers that need to fill up before you can act.

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October 29th, 2010, 09:01
The ATB system is copyrighted by square…. didn't you play any other J-rpgs?
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October 29th, 2010, 09:18
Yes I did play other JRPGS. Not many though. Like Septerra Core had the timer and….well Zelda I guess is JRPG, but other than that I stay far away from the emo side of the pool

Penny Arcade's games also had the timer. Although, I wouldn't consider it JRPG. It just had that silly quasi-turnbased system. Not so sure about that whole "copyright" thing. Seems like a few companies have bypassed that copyright.

Also, didn't Anachronox have that timer?

Edit: If you're not talking about timers then what JRPG style are you talking about? Do you mean each person takes a turn based on their own initiative because that is not JRPG territory. That is ours. If they stole that then fine, but we had Wizardry before they had it. Let's go a little further back and remember The Bards Tale. It was there as well.

If you get away from the first person then you have the Ultima III - VI games with each turn based on initiative, hell even D&D did that. Can't get more western than D&D.

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Last edited by skavenhorde; October 29th, 2010 at 14:29.
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October 29th, 2010, 10:59
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
The ATB system is copyrighted by square….
These things are copyrighteable ???

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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October 29th, 2010, 15:49
Combat is turn-based. It was clumsy in the pilot. It's less clumsy now, but still needs some work. It isn't what Brenda Brathwaite calls "phase based," which was the Wizardry / Bard's Tale equivalent —- everyone choose their action and then the turn runs. This is closer to, say, Might & Magic. Not sure how the JRPG-ness figures in, though that does seem to be the last bastion of turn-based combat in RPGs these days outside of the indies.
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October 29th, 2010, 16:11
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
The ATB system is copyrighted by square….

These things are copyrighteable ???
Yeah they have an old patent for that in the US from 1992 or something….

Edit: If you're not talking about timers then what JRPG style are you talking about? Do you mean each person takes a turn based on their own initiative because that is not JRPG territory. That is ours. If they stole that then fine, but we had Wizardry before they had it. Let's go a little further back and remember The Bards Tale. It was there as well.
It is true it came from old american RPG's but now a days it is almost only "J-RPGs" which has that kind of system.. even if there are many RPG-maker games which is made outside of Japan…. also the "all at the same time" thingy is in several j-rpgs…. I guess the main thing which made it feel like a J-rpg was the limited options….. but that was probably because it was in the beginning of the game… in J-rpgs you ussually have a myriade of spells… but you only use heal, summon and attack….
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October 29th, 2010, 16:11
Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
Combat is turn-based. It was clumsy in the pilot. It's less clumsy now, but still needs some work. It isn't what Brenda Brathwaite calls "phase based," which was the Wizardry / Bard's Tale equivalent —- everyone choose their action and then the turn runs. This is closer to, say, Might & Magic. Not sure how the JRPG-ness figures in, though that does seem to be the last bastion of turn-based combat in RPGs these days outside of the indies.
Phase based and M&M style are almost the same thing. You still have initiative involved. It's just in one you do all the commands up front and in the other each character takes a turn like in the Ultima series or pretty much any turnbased game out there. Actually, it is the exact definition of what I think turnbased games should be. One turn per player character/NPCs


@GG I'm still unsure of what you mean because I play TB games all the time that have nothing to do with JRPGs, but ok. As long as you weren't about those damn timers. Keep those things out of my indies. Penny Arcade's games were ruined because of that thing, imo of course

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October 31st, 2010, 01:31
Most jrpgs have turn based systems because Square took the base of their games from early Ultima games and simplified it. Then most of the other companies copied them. Frayed Knights is closer to being Might and Magic combined with Quest for Glory and not really like a jrpg.


Actually the ATB system came out in 1997 with Final Fantasy VII and didn't exist in 1992. Just like their previous combat systems it was copied by many other companies. This can happen because you can't copyright an idea so you can't copyright the idea of an "Active Time Battle" system. You can only copyright your implementation of that system.
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October 31st, 2010, 05:30
I'm sure they tried to copyright it, but since Penny Arcade used it then I'm sure nothing ever came of it

I really wanted to like that game too, but the combat was not to my liking. I bought both and haven't touched the second one, yet.

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November 1st, 2010, 17:47
I'm not a fan of those kinds of systems, either. While I'm sure there are games that might call for it (a multiplayer game where other players are waiting for you to take your turn, for example), in general a turn-based game should just let you take your time.

Positioning is going to remain somewhat abstract, as it is now, but things like range and weapon type are important. If you want to kill the caster in the back of a big group of enemies, you are going to need to use bows or spells, or chew through the front ranks of bad guys in a big hurry to get to him.
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November 1st, 2010, 22:43
like in D&D 3rd edition (don't know how it works in 4th, couldn't read the handbook too far without puking). Characters get a 'free hit' if you move too much within their reach, so the front line tanks can damage anybody who tries to go past them to the wussies in the back.
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November 2nd, 2010, 08:48
I'm sure they tried to copyright it, but since Penny Arcade used it then I'm sure nothing ever came of it
It did they patented it 1992 in the US and 1991 in Japan… that means the patent will expire soon though. Either the penny arcade got a permit from them or it is different enough to not infringe on the patent.

Positioning is going to remain somewhat abstract, as it is now, but things like range and weapon type are important.
That's good, already adds a lot to the normal press attack fighting!
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:49
I'll be damned. They actually patented it. They threw in a controller invention on this patent as well.

They were pretty relaxed about it though. Searched around for anyone sued over this and couldn't find anything. I imagine it might be hard to actually sue someone over the ATB combat system. If you read the patent it is very specific on what the combat system is all about.

While searching I came across a neat little history of console RPGs, here.

Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
Positioning is going to remain somewhat abstract, as it is now, but things like range and weapon type are important. If you want to kill the caster in the back of a big group of enemies, you are going to need to use bows or spells, or chew through the front ranks of bad guys in a big hurry to get to him.
That's good news. Can't have a blob style rpg where the guys in the back can get hit by anyone Keep up the good work.

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