Divinity II: FoV - Review @ IGN

IGN has a review that focuses on the Flames of Vengeance expansion, unlike most of the articles out there that centre on DKS and the reviewer probably didn't even get to the FoV part. The score is a modest 6/10, although the reviewer comes from a different place than some of our readers. The author hates that the focus isn't on the dragon part, saying "the total package feels like the opening half (i.e., the worse half)". A bit on exploration and quest markers:

Worse still is the lack of quest markers, yet another problem carried over from the core game. Look, I'm all for exploration and discovery, but not everyone wants to go pixel-hunting in an action RPG. There is one particular main quest that tasks you with finding five buttons spread throughout the streets of Aleroth that you must press to continue the story. Never mind that the game doesn't bother to tell you that two cannot be accessed until much later—which in itself is annoying—but one button in particular is hidden behind a bush in a corner of one street that the camera has no reason to look at. You basically would only stumble on the button by exploring literally every inch of the city or having eyes like a hawk (and seeing a tiny red glow through the leaves of the bush). Good and great RPGs—Fallout: New Vegas, Fable 3, Dragon Age: Origins, and Mass Effect 2 just to name releases from the last year—reward players for exploring with special quests and unique loot, which is fine. However, forcing players to look in obscure spots with no help due to storyline quests with absolutely zero information is just overkill. (One main quest, which is divided into five parts, has the horrific description in the quest log of "I need five clues to continue, but I don't know where they are, so I guess I better just look around.") Perhaps some players like the "challenge," but many—the ones only interested in the story and not collect-aholics—have better things to do than waste time looking for glowing buttons.

More information.

This review is madness. IGN is obviously the bizarro world.

Huh? How can it be a review of "Flames of Vengeance" if he "didn't get to the FoV part", Dhruin?

That quest in Aleroth that's mentioned wasn't in D2:ED (To the best of my knowledge) so he must have played it.

I'm not that stupid. Most of the other reviews out there are for DKS and since I've yet to see one of them comment on the change of gameplay when you reach the FoV part, I think it's safe to assume most of the reviewers just played a few hours of Ego Draconis and then quoted "100 hours gameplay". This is one of the relatively few articles that deals exclusively with FoV.

Heh, there's another section of the game which suffers greatly from the pixel hunting thing, also to the point of absurdity (I forget which part exactly, some dungeon with jail cells and a switch). If it wasn't for the kind help of some forumites, I never would've been able to proceed.

Lack of quest markers? I despise quest makers. If the npcs are so forgettable that you need quest markers then better not to play the game at all.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
I'm not that stupid. Most of the other reviews out there are for DKS and since I've yet to see one of them comment on the change of gameplay when you reach the FoV part, I think it's safe to assume most of the reviewers just played a few hours of Ego Draconis and then quoted "100 hours gameplay". This is one of the relatively few articles that deals exclusively with FoV.

Of course, sorry Dhruin. Reading comprehension fail.

So instead of following a sparkling quest trail which showed you where to run coupled with some nice quest markers showing you where to click and when to click, you had to find the rune stones yourself? The horror.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Lack of quest markers? I despise quest makers. If the npcs are so forgettable that you need quest markers then better not to play the game at all.

Then you must hate quest logs. If the quest someone gives you is so forgettable that you need a quest log then better not to play the game at all.

What about map screens? If the landscape you're playing on is so unremarkable that you need a map to know where you are then better not to play the game at all.

Yes, if we learned one thing from Fable or the Elder Turds it's that a proper RPG has to show you at any time where to run and where to click.

Originally Posted by VentilatorOfDoom
Yes, if we learned one thing from Fable or the Elder Turds it's that a proper RPG has to show you at any time where to run and where to click.

The Elder Turds? What are you, 12?*

Can't we just agree that toggle-able quest markers make everybody happy? PARTICULARLY in an action RPG, most of us want to focus on the killing and the looting and the leveling, and not on the orienteering.

*PS If you're really 12, nice job! You're going to go far.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
PARTICULARLY in an action RPG, most of us want to focus on the killing and the looting and the leveling, and not on the orienteering.

If this means that Divinity II is more than just an action RPG, this is good news.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
The Elder Turds? What are you, 12?*

35, don't meant to hurt the feelings of a fan, sorry

Originally Posted by Yeesh
Can't we just agree that toggle-able quest markers make everybody happy?

No we can't.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
PARTICULARLY in an action RPG, most of us want to focus on the killing and the looting and the leveling, and not on the orienteering.

Not everyone's convinced that a RPG should have Fable-style handholding. Which is what the reviewer laments, that not every single fucking runestone somewhere is marked for clicking exactly when you need to click it. Result: 6/10. That's retarded.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
You're going to go far.

Yes it works out rather well. Better than your pathetic strawmen worked out for sure.

Originally Posted by VentilatorOfDoom
35, don't meant to hurt the feelings of a fan, sorry

No we can't.

Not everyone's convinced that a RPG should have Fable-style handholding. Which is what the reviewer laments, that not every single fucking runestone somewhere is marked for clicking exactly when you need to click it. Result: 6/10. That's retarded.

Yes it works out rather well. Better than your pathetic strawmen worked out for sure.

You're so grouchy. You should smile more while you've still got some youth left.

There was no strawman-ing because I wasn't attacking your position, I was attacking the way you expressed it. I wouldn't take someone's political views very seriously if he used the term "Republi-turds" either.

I imagine that as our beloved hobby continues to grow, there's not much in gaming that "everyone's convinced" about. Does that mean reviewers shouldn't voice their frustration where they feel a game adds tedium without adding fun? And is it so impossible to envision the difference between having coords in a quest log that do or don't pop up on a map, and having a waypoint that points you there as a convenience issue that doesn't impact difficulty in the slightest?

I am strongly against quest compasses and other idiot friendly "features" myself. A decent journal, like The Witcher had is very nice, a map, that updates itself as you learn information is good. Big yellow sign yelling you "Look idiot, follow me!" is a slap in the face and has no place in a real RPG. A "reviewer" claiming otherwise needs to be fucking sacked. End of story.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
I imagine that as our beloved hobby continues to grow, there's not much in gaming that "everyone's convinced" about. Does that mean reviewers shouldn't voice their frustration where they feel a game adds tedium without adding fun? And is it so impossible to envision the difference between having coords in a quest log that do or don't pop up on a map, and having a waypoint that points you there as a convenience issue that doesn't impact difficulty in the slightest?

I take it, you don't know what you're talking about, right?
The game has map markers, pointing to quest locations. But it doesn't solve the puzzles for you. Yes, this runestone thing was a puzzle. And the reviewer basically complained that he had to actually solve it. Of course every reviewer has the right to vent his frustration with the game and the fact that this IGN reviewer chose to do so because the game forced him to come up with a modicum of brain activity - which is not fun as everyone knows - is only fitting.

But it's true, the game has little to no handholding. You need to find out yourself how to solve puzzles, access hidden treaures or solve certain quests. For some that's a breath of fresh air, for others a source of frustration.

Originally Posted by VentilatorOfDoom
I take it, you don't know what you're talking about, right?
The game has map markers, pointing to quest locations. But it doesn't solve the puzzles for you. Yes, this runestone thing was a puzzle. And the reviewer basically complained that he had to actually solve it. Of course every reviewer has the right to vent his frustration with the game and the fact that this IGN reviewer chose to do so because the game forced him to come up with a modicum of brain activity - which is not fun as everyone knows - is only fitting.

But it's true, the game has little to no handholding. You need to find out yourself how to solve puzzles, access hidden treaures or solve certain quests. For some that's a breath of fresh air, for others a source of frustration.

And so too every one of us internet forumites has a sacred and inalienable right to pounce on over-broad condemnations of concepts and gameplay or UI mechanisms even when we have no idea what the original article said and haven't even played the game. If you think about it, it's God's work. Like an angel does.

So no I don't know what I'm talking about… except to the extent I was talking about how it's absurd to say you shouldn't be playing or reviewing CRPGs if you prefer there to be quest markers. Which extent was kinda "all the way", if you think about it.

He lost me here:

Good and great RPGs—Fallout: New Vegas, Fable 3, Dragon Age: Origins, and Mass Effect 2 just to name releases from the last year

by throwing ME2 and Fable3 in with the other two. Course thats just my own definition coming into play on what a great RPG is (neither of which ME2 or F3 is IMO).

I like good maps, that update as you explore, and very good quest logs that keep track of all the dialogue and hints. However I am not as keen on quest markers. Toggles don't really work that well … as temptation rears its ugly head.

Sadly it is easy to get spoiled. I was playing WoW last night (I know the horror of admitting that) and a few quest markers are in the wrong place (or for a final result of the quest not the steps) and I grew so use to them over time I was like, WTF, now what? Oh … I guess I actually have to use my brain and explore a little.

I prefer not to have them, as long as the map and quest log are excellent, as I find having them makes my brain go to mush. Instead of enjoying the world, immersion, etc. I am just doing a "connect the dots" as my hand directs my guy around the world as my eyes look for the dots.

So DKS being limited in its hand holding is a big plus for me.

Div2 has a log of all conversations, it's pretty much impossible to not have any info required, I presume that was too hard to figure out and a convenient marker indicating when to click on what object and when to initiate a conversation with what character is what's to be expected nowadays.

Originally Posted by Yeesh
Then you must hate quest logs. If the quest someone gives you is so forgettable that you need a quest log then better not to play the game at all.

What about map screens? If the landscape you're playing on is so unremarkable that you need a map to know where you are then better not to play the game at all.

Dont be stupid. I can easily remember what personal characters look like and where they hang around and perhaps even their name. But nobody can remember multiple long quest logs. Also quest log should be enough to point you to the right person by including the name of the character etc.

As for map screen I could go with cloth map with latitudes and longtitudes and somkind of ingame device to calculate them.