|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever

Default Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever

January 3rd, 2011, 22:32
Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever…so says GameInformer in a new article where they use "science" and compare BioWare's epic against Oblivion, Mass Effect and Final Fantasy X to prove the point. On BG2 vs Oblivion:
It says something terrible that no matter how poorly Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was balanced (and the ruleset used in BG2 is hilariously imbalanced, with the inclusion of silly rules like monks and class kits), it pales in comparison to the mess that is Oblivion's system. In BG2 you have the freedom to create massively awesome parties by including whatever mix of the brilliantly written NPCs you wanted. Some combinations are better than others, and certain main character builds are borderline ridiculous (oh hi there, dual-class fighter-mage katana grandmaster!), but it's nigh impossible to gimp your group into unplayability if you pay any attention at all.

Meanwhile, in Oblivion, several advancement paths effectively send you backwards. Not leveling any Endurance-related skills? Have fun with the durability of a newborn kitten wrapped in wet paper towels! Picked Mercantile or Speechcraft as a major? Try not to talk to anyone, because while you get marginally better at a sub-game that nobody cares about, the monsters are out there pumping iron and finding better equipment to eviscerate you with. On the flip side, Oblivion is stupidly easy to break to the point where you're de facto invincible. Try stupid crap like that against a BG2 lich and see how far it gets you.
More information.
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
SasqWatch
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,967

Default 

January 3rd, 2011, 22:32
Comparing BG 2 with Oblivion and ME… is this supposed to be a joke ? Is this supposed to be a serious article?

When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child. Now that I'm a man, I have no more use for childish ways.
bloodlover is offline

bloodlover

bloodlover's Avatar
Sentinel

#2

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vivec, Morrowind
Posts: 481

Default 

January 3rd, 2011, 22:38
No comparrison to Ultima VII? If you are trying to find the best RPG ever, that HAS to be at least in the conversation.

————————————————-

"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"

- Davy Crockett
blatantninja is offline

blatantninja

blatantninja's Avatar
Resident Redneck Facist

#3

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,082

Default 

January 3rd, 2011, 22:38
Wow, they really lined up the big competition for that one. An auto-leveling hack & slash devoid of RPG qualities, a quasi-shooter with a story on rails and an a console game featuring teenagers with spiky hair and oversized swords. Way to really put it to the test GameInformer. I will say they did completely fulfill the journalistic standards I've come to expect from them.

What's next? Best Shooter Ever! comparing Doom, Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Halo?
LuckyCarbon is offline

LuckyCarbon

LuckyCarbon's Avatar
Unfettered Developer

#4

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 388

Default 

January 3rd, 2011, 22:47
Baldur's Gate 2 is overrated. Still, no real contest there.
tolknaz is offline

tolknaz

Sentinel

#5

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 369

Default 

January 3rd, 2011, 23:20
Overrated? Compared to what?

It's subjective as to whether BG2 is actually the best ever, but it should definitely be included in that conversation.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#6

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,816

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 00:04
It *is* subjective but yeah, BG2 wouldn't be anywhere near the top if I were to have a "best RPG" list. I find it very overrated as well, though it is definitely a fun game.

But yep… These lists/articles are as stupid as ever, no reason to pay any particular attention to them.
Starwars is offline

Starwars

Watchdog

#7

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 224

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 00:26
Ah Baldur's Gate 2: Contingencies and Counterspells. Every battle lasted an hour while your uber characters tore down all the spell shielding of their enemies. Yuk! Baldur's Gate 2 had a nice story, but really boring and hideous battles.

'nut
crpgnut is online now

crpgnut

crpgnut's Avatar
Fantasy Novel Archmage
RPGWatch Donor

#8

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, Mo USA
Posts: 3,712

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 00:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Overrated? Compared to what?

It's subjective as to whether BG2 is actually the best ever, but it should definitely be included in that conversation.
I agree that it should be in the running (though I'd personally put a few other RPGs ahead of it), but that doesnt mean that it cant be overrated Overrated doesnt say anything about quality in absolute terms. BG2 is probably more overrated than Dungeon Lords due to the sheer difference in fanbase size…
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#9

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,869

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 00:45
Originally Posted by LuckyCarbon View Post
An auto-leveling hack & slash devoid of RPG qualities
Hmm… I must admit I never looked at it this way :)
and an a console game featuring teenagers with spiky hair and oversized swords.
…vs a PC game featuring old men with grey beards and undersized swords. Hey, it`s an argument too!

What's next? Best Shooter Ever! comparing Doom, Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Halo?
It`s Halo, mate.
zadokAllen is offline

zadokAllen

Sentinel

#10

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Innsmouth
Posts: 484

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 01:38
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
I agree that it should be in the running (though I'd personally put a few other RPGs ahead of it), but that doesnt mean that it cant be overrated Overrated doesnt say anything about quality in absolute terms. BG2 is probably more overrated than Dungeon Lords due to the sheer difference in fanbase size…

So it's more overrated because more people like it? Not sure I agree with that logic.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,816

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 02:20
Baldur's Gate II vs. EVERY RPG RELEASED, EVAH: Baldur's Gate II wins.
Why? Because. End of story!

Seriously, and I've said this lots of times:

- Planescape Torment, among other RPGs, has better story and characters
- TOEE has the greatest RPG combat system (and looks lovelier to boot!)
- Morrowind has a much more fascinating world and lore
- Icewind Dale has a better soundtrack and better battles
- Arcanum has more "roleplaying", also a more interesting world, as does Fallout

I could go on but the point I will make eventually is this: All those games excelled at one or two things (and I love them for it) but Baldur's Gate 2 to me did ALL of those things very well.

It wasn't perfect, but it was a very entertaining, HUGE game with tons of quests, locales and characters (and sidequests), beautiful graphics (which have aged well), great music, fun gameplay, and a great sense of humor. It is definitely the peak of classic Western or PC RPGs and a decade later and not one serious contender has stepped up.

In all fairness, its weakest link is the lack of choice and consequences. Other games as I've mentioned, do this better. But those games suffer in other areas: Arcanum is a great example of that. Clunky interface, terrible combat system, dated graphics upon release, bugs.

So I understand why some don't like BG2 it or think it's overrated. Just like I understand why some find Morrowind lifeless, dull, boring or why the general "clunkyness" of Arcanum throws some off, or how the road to Arnika can frustrate some to never get past it.

Still, take away the fancy graphics and tons of voice acting in modern RPGs and they're just not in the same league as far as gameplay and overall experience is concerned to any of the games above, much less the one game I feel did most things right and had the least "issues".

Oblivion cares about YOU!
Last edited by Relayer; January 4th, 2011 at 02:44.
Relayer is offline

Relayer

Relayer's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#12

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 758

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 03:37
Lack of meaningful choices and consequences and world reactivity, relatively limited quest solutions, lack of crafting. Also (and i understand that this is highly subjective and comes primarily from the setting), the world is very generic high fantasy with all the cliches and baggage imaginable. Don't get me wrong, the game is still a very good RPG, just not the holy grail that some people make it up to be.
tolknaz is offline

tolknaz

Sentinel

#13

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 369

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 03:54
Bloodlines is the BESTEST GAME EVAR!!!11!!!!!11

Why? Because I said so that's why and here are some very scientificky reasons as to why it is the best ever:

#1 Because it is the best.
#2 You're a vampire. Nuff said.
#3 If you don't agree well then you're just stupid!!!

All joking aside, any article that states that something is the best EVER is not worth reading.

While Baldur's Gate II is one of my all time favorite RPGs. I do not consider it the best I've ever played. Hell I don't think I could state that I've played the "best" in a game. The really good ones are all fun just in different ways.

Despite all my rage.
I'm still just a rat in a cage.
Last edited by skavenhorde; January 4th, 2011 at 04:06.
skavenhorde is offline

skavenhorde

skavenhorde's Avatar
Little BRO Rat
RPGWatch Team

#14

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 5,408

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 05:15
It's pretty telling about the state of the mainstream gaming press that five years after release now they are criticizing Oblivion for all of its flaws, yet upon release it was almost perfect across the board best game ever.

Just shows that these magazines agree to give good reviews so they can get the early scoop and previews of the games. Journalistic Integrity in the mainstream press is pretty much dead.

I dont really on the mag reviews anymore at all, I wait at least 6 months after release and then think about getting a game….
Saxon1974 is offline

Saxon1974

Saxon1974's Avatar
Sentinel

#15

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 307

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 05:31
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
All joking aside, any article that states that something is the best EVER is not worth reading.

While Baldur's Gate II is one of my all time favorite RPGs. I do not consider it the best I've ever played. Hell I don't think I could state that I've played the "best" in a game. The really good ones are all fun just in different ways.
I strongly agree with your stance on "best game ever" discussions. It's such a highly subjective debate that there will never be a clear winner; there can't be a best RPG, just an individual's favorite. For example, Dues Ex, Arcanum, and Bloodlines are among my favorite RPGs, but I recognize that none of these games are perfect and have their share of flaws that might cause other gamers to not enjoy these games as much as I did. Because of this, I would never try to make an argument that one of these games is "the best RPG" ever made.
Nerevarine is offline

Nerevarine

Nerevarine's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#16

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 839

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 06:12
Probably is the best RPG ever. How many others can you play co-op for the full singleplayer campaign?
SirJames is offline

SirJames

SirJames's Avatar
Sentinel

#17

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 535

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 07:44
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
Probably is the best RPG ever. How many others can you play co-op for the full singleplayer campaign?
Now that's a perfect example of how subjective the debate is. To you, having co-op for the entire single-player campaign is a really great feature, making BGII an awesome RPG experience. But for myself and others with similar tastes, I could care less about having co-op in an RPG. It is a pretty cool feature to have, but I play RPGs for the immersion of the story and the game world; having other people in the world sort of breaks that immersion. So for my own personal preference of becoming immersed in single-player RPGs, I don't think that the stellar implementation of full co-op makes BGII the "best RPG ever." So which one of us is right? Well, neither of us, because our personal tastes and preferences dictate our own subjective opinions, making the argument of which RPG is "the best" pointless.
Nerevarine is offline

Nerevarine

Nerevarine's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#18

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 839

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 07:48
It's hardly a secret that I agree with the article - BG2 is my favorite game of all time. Also, I'm glad the author of the article put it into the context he did: Comparing it to other games the "masses" might consider the top RPG of all time - it wouldn't make much sense to compare it to titles most people haven't even heard about.

The readers of the Watch should be happy to be honest - an article on a mainstream site where an oldschool RPG comes out on top compared to Oblivion and Mass Effect.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#19

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,430
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

January 4th, 2011, 09:29
Originally Posted by Nerevarine View Post
Now that's a perfect example of how subjective the debate is. To you, having co-op for the entire single-player campaign is a really great feature, making BGII an awesome RPG experience. But for myself and others with similar tastes, I could care less about having co-op in an RPG. It is a pretty cool feature to have, but I play RPGs for the immersion of the story and the game world; having other people in the world sort of breaks that immersion. So for my own personal preference of becoming immersed in single-player RPGs, I don't think that the stellar implementation of full co-op makes BGII the "best RPG ever." So which one of us is right? Well, neither of us, because our personal tastes and preferences dictate our own subjective opinions, making the argument of which RPG is "the best" pointless.
If you co-op with the right person/people - your immersion can actually be enhanced. This is from personal experience.

The sharing of a strong gaming experience, can lead to the whole thing becoming almost a "life event" that you can talk about for years. I've had this happen to me more than once, and I can't think of too many RPGs where having properly implemented cooperative multiplayer wouldn't make the game much stronger.

But, it's key to have people you like to be with and who share your approach to playing games - and I've always insisted on being in the same room and having extended sessions for this to really work well. Not an easy thing to accomplish for an adult with responsibilities - but it's worth it when feasible.

This is, naturally, just my opinion - but I really think people are missing out by discounting this vital aspect.

Baldur's Gate 2, sadly, didn't lend itself all that well to cooperative play - because they retained some of the flaws of the implementation from the first game. You still couldn't explore areas separately and you still couldn't avoid pauses in most dialogue sequences. That was not a natural way to share the experience - but I actually did play it for a while with my brother and his girlfriend, and it was great.

Neverwinter Nights is probably still the best implementation of local cooperative play with a reasonable amount of depth to the experience. Playing the Lord of Terror campaign with friends was absolutely fantastic.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#20

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,442
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch